The old lady's friend
Distalgesic (Cosalgesic, Coproxamol) is a compound analgesic. Each tablet contains Dextropropoxyphene Hydrochloride BP 32.5mg & Paracetamol BP 325mg (for those in the colonies, paracetamol = acetaminophen). Dextropropoxyphene is an opiate like drug. It may have addictive properties. It can be prescribed alone or in combination with paracetamol.
Compound analgesics are illogical and dangerous. If you need two pain killers, better to prescribe them separately so that you can adjust the dose of each independently. A classic case of do what I say, not what I do, for all doctors prescribe compound analgesics, usually combinations of paracetamol and codeine, such as Co-codamol. (paracetamol 500 mg + codeine 8mg or 30mg).
Two paracetamol four times a day provide excellent analgesia, and are a good starting point on the analgesic ladder. Patients may truly need something stronger than paracetamol but, in many cases, they are only benefiting from the placebo effect of something perceived to be “stronger” than over the counter preparations.
Despite theoretical objections, there is not much harm in a compound co-codamol type of analgesic, and Big Pharma has obliged with a plethora of preparations, all gift wrapped and heavily marketed.
Distalgesic probably slipped through on the bandwagon with no one noticing. It was an instant success and soon had a devoted following. Part of its success was due to its easily swallowable torpedo shape. The drive towards economic prescribing brought the arrival of Cosalgesics (cheaper) and then, horror, the truly generic “Co-proxamol” – which meant the pharmacist could dispense whatever formulation he had in stock. Patients travelled miles to find a chemist who stocked the original “Distalgesic”
Its success was baffling. All the research showed that dextropropoxyphene was not a particularly good pain killer even in combination with paracetamol. It was even said that two paracetamol were just as effective as two Distalgesics. All well and good in the laboratories, but try telling that to the patients.
Then more disturbing data began to emerge.
A review of all dextropropoxyphene poisoning episodes in a stable representative population during the past 10 years showed that Distalgesic accounts for most overdoses, and it has become an increasingly popular component of self-poisoning coktails. Sudden respiratory depression due to dextopropoxyphene potentiated by other common ingested agents is the main danger, and at least one-third of patients take a potentially lethal dose (20 tablets of Distalgesic and alcohol or benzodiazepine)…..As a practice, we made a policy decision twelve years ago to stop prescribing co-proxamol, and to change all patients on it to something else. The first part of the task was easy. The second was not. We were staggered by the difficulties we encountered.
….consequently Distalgesic has become the ingested agent principally responsible for self-poisoning deaths over the age of 12 years. This rise to prominence has paralleled a pronounced increase in prescriptions for the drug. (source)
We rapidly became convinced of two things; for some people – for whatever reason, be it psychological or physical, and despite what the research scientists say – Distalgesic is a potent and effective painkiller; secondly, Distalgesic is addictive.
The Committee on Safety of Medicines finally decided to withdraw Distalgesic in all its forms in January 2005, but agreed it should be a phased withdrawal “to allow users an opportunity to adopt suitable alternative pain management strategies" (a.k.a break their addiction.)
Even after ten years we still have a handful of (mostly) little old ladies who are devoted to Distalgesics. Is it better to leave them be? Iain Dale certainly wants his mother left alone (and postulates that the drug was only banned because David Kelly committed suicide with it).
As all GPs know, patients can be very determined about their perceived "rights" to medication. A Mr de Quincey writes from the Lake District:
Hi, I was taking opium for several years, I have multiple spine and other joint problems and terrible nerve pain. I was very satisfied with opium, I was able to manage my pain and stiffness and continue to work part time, I took it only when needed at low dosage levels. Imagine my surprise when my doctor informed me that all his patients were to be instructed that opium was being discontinued, and I was taken of it. I tried to argue that it worked for me and that I was responsible with my medicines and did not drink, but the doctor insisted and told me he would be struck off if he continued to prescribe it for me.Actually, the real email was from Helen Jones-Gill and was for the attention of the Department of Health (full text here ). Dr Crippen has naughtily substituted one little word. Apologies, Helen.
But Helen Jones-Gill email demonstrates that, if Distalgesic was to go, something new was needed. Enter Tramadol. This is currently a much in-vogue drug. No one seems to know where it has come from. Most doctors have not got a clue what is in it or how strong it really is or what side effects it has. But it seems to help and the punters like it, so doctors are now prescribing it in shed loads.
Tramadol originates from Germany. It is a synthetic opiate like drug. It may have addictive properties. It can be prescribed alone or, guess what, in combination with paracetamol. Where have I heard that before? Maybe they should call it Tramalgesic.
Here we go again.
Labels: distalgesic, tramadol
Distalgesics








36 Comments:
How new is tramadol? (as I'm fairly sure that it's been around for a few years).
Oh it's been around a good few years - and is getting more and more of a following
John
An interesting post - we get a lot of pharmacology questions at medical school about someone (usually an overworked doctor) overdosing on copraxomol. It seems to me (in my expert opinion as a second year medical student) that opiate like drugs (which are usually addictive, from what I can remember) should be reserved for acute, rather than chronic pain where they might induce dependency. Mind you, I've had no clinical experience, nor have I ever been is such severe pain as to require anything more than an paracetamol or ibuprofen, so I realise my opinion's not worth an awful lot.
In surgery i saw almost every patient written up for Tramadol along with Paracetamol and Morphine.
From anecdotal evidence (i.e. the patients on general sugery) it's a pretty good painkiller. But as has been said the opioids are used post-op routinely anyway so not much of a change.
They had better bloody give me opioids post op or there'll be screaming...
Henry
I have a few patients on Co-proxamol and each and every one of those is a little old lady-weird.
I predict chaose when it starts to run out with people going pharmacy to pharmacy to find stock. It will still be available on an unlicenced/named patient basis (and then presumably £20 a box instead of the £1 it is now)
I spent many hour of my training explaining that Distalgesic was just the same as generic co-proxamol (though Distalgesic was eventually blacklisted as a brand)I almost became convniced that ir was "special" in some way
Combination painkillers are horrible, there is no scope to titrate doses of the individual drugs. Saying that I still dispense 1000s of Co-codamol 30/500 every week.
I'm guessing that Tramadol capsules have been around for about ten years in the UK, much longer on the continent.
Tramadol has been around long enough to have gone generic in the USA. Meaning, the patent has expired. Not sure when exactly it came out, personally I heard about it in the early-mid 1990's.
Propoxyphene, marketed as Darvon (propoxyphene alone) Darvocet (with acetaminophen), came out in 1957.
It's not a very good analgesic, and yes, it has side-effects, more than we realized at first.
You don't find me prescribing very much propoxyphene. I do get the occasional patient who does well on it, so it's not like I never prescribe it, but it's not my first choice.
Tramadol had low abuse potential......but not zero. I've encountered a few abusers over the years.
Oh, and yes, tramadol has been combined with acetaminophen. The idea is supposed to be, drugs combined with acepaminophen cannot be abused beyond a certain point, otherwise you will end up with liver failure. Whether or not that makes sense is another matter.
Problem with tramadol/acetaminophen combination in the USA is, that combo now makes the drug "new", i.e., patented. So two real cheap generic drugs (acetaminophen and tramadol), become one very expensive brand name drug.
.........arf
I have to admit that when I had terrible toothache the only thing that eased it and allowed me to sleep was my father's distalgesic, left over from when he broke his ankle. (I know I shouldn't have been taking it, but that's not the issue right now.)
I'm a physician and I use tramadol for rather bad low back pain from an old injury. Provided one keeps to the low end of the dose curve it's not bad at all and avoids the standard opiate side effects (constipation being the most irritating). I've heard of seizures at high doses, but I do not venture above the bare minimum.
I could see it becoming addictive; unlike standard opiates it provides more of an energetic high, rather like a mild amphetamine. Tolerance for this effect as well as analgesia develops quite rapidly though, so I try not to take it more than once every couple of days. The nice thing is that it's generic in the US, so 30 pills is only $2 at Walmart. Less than Tylenol, actually.
Off-topic but may be of some interest.
Here's a medical practice in rural North Carolina, that is profitable with a practice model that deals with absolutely no insurance. Office visit is $45. Charges for labs and supplies as needed.
Over time, the author finds more and more of his patients actually have insurance, but still prefer to see this doctor and submit their own billing to insurance.
http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20070600/19brea.html
......arf
Dr Crippen, just interested to know what would be your preferred analgesic of choice if you were treating a patient whose pain was sufficiently bad to require something more than paracetamol, and you were looking at the next rung up on the analgesic ladder? I was prescribed dihydrocodeine and was switched to tramadol because (I was told) it turned I was one of those people who can't convert codeine in the liver to morphine, hence why I was getting such poor pain relief. Further down the line I'm unfortunately on to the next step up to control the pain in order to be able to lead a normal life and go to work, and further to trying other adjuncts to the tramadol (pregabalin, amitriptyline), am getting enormous benefit from the fentanyl patched prescribed for me at the pain clinic I attend.
I was really scared when I was first prescribed opioid painkillers, because of the possibility of addiction. The way it's been explained to me is that there was a big difference between drug dependence (in that I needed the drug to be able to function properly, because of the difference it made to my pain levels and being able to do things like go to work and lead a normal life) and addiction - and that yes I would in all likelihood become dependent on the drug, but that it was crazy to NOT take the medication that clearly made the difference between being able to go to work and not, out of a fear of 'addiction' - the pain consultant likened it to a diabetic being dependent on insulin but not being addicted to it.
Would be really interesting to hear your views on pain control, and over / under prescription of opioid painkillers, as different GPs at my practice have very different views on this, it's a thorny subject!
Is that the one that blocks my bowels or the one that makes my stomach hurt?
My dear grandmother still rages because she cannot have coproxamol anymore. She is convinced nothing else could possibly work and is now in pain most of the time (she has gout and arthritis) because she refuses to even try the co-dydramol she is prescribed for pain. I who also have arthritis, find co-dydramol excellent on those days when the diclofenac I normally take doesn't touch the pain of my sore joints. I am not even paying for the prescriptions at the moment because I use the stuff the pharmacist delivers to Grandma and she refuses to take and don't bother to get my prescriptions filled. However, I sometimes wonder how much of its efficacy is based on the fact that I believe it will work or at leats knock me out. The only hitch with it is the constipation it causes unless one is very careful.
Addiction is a terrible scourge. If only there were an adult version of this marvellous work for children: Latawnya, the naughty horse, learns to say "no" to drugs...
You will note that as a result of the new found fame for this book, this splendid woman has managed to sell out the remainder of her print run on Amazon but you may well savour the reviews...I know that I wept.
Regards - Shinga
Dearieme - the one that makes your stomach hurt might be 'Diclofenac' (Volterol), an anti-inflamatory - horrible stuff and yes, it'll have you running for the loo and it makes my stomach hurt...
I don't find many pain killers that effective, Dihydrocodine has a moderate effect. Co-proxamol does nothing much. Paracetamol every 4 hours does nothing. Our GP prescribed my husband Tramadol for back pain and said it was 'one step away from Morphine' - not sure if I agree with him there. I think that pain relief is a subjective thing as people have different pain threholds and tolerances.
Please can we stop with the 'little old lady' tag. When I grow up I never want to be called this.
I'm a woman.
Hear hear, anonymous at 11.01. (I am an older woman.)
I first had Tramadol capsules (UK) in 1995, so they're not all that new, and not mysterious. They're simply a synthetic opioid with altered receptors that block the addiction pathways in most patients. They also have an affection on serotonin reuptake, which accounts for the euphoric feeling. The abuse potential is minimal, as it can take up to 4 hours to kick in.
I have an ongoing rx for it for severe pain, but I can't work properly when I take it, I get too dreamy and distracted!
It doesn't react too badly with other meds either, hence why it's carried on ambulances.
Ms MT
Interesting. When I broke my collarbone a new years ago, after I had managed to get past the idiot triage staff in the hospital ("I've broken my collarbone." "No you haven't, it's probably just a dislocation." "No, trust me, I can feel the sharp bone edges moving." "Well, we'll get the doctor to look at it." Doctor walks in, takes one look and says "It's broken. X-ray is over there.") I was given diclofenac and co-proxamol. It was certainly my impression that the co-proxamol provided more pain relief than the ibuprofen that I was told to take when the co-proxamol ran out. It's possible that there was a placebo effect involved, but the thing that I really noticed was that the ibuprofen was less good at dulling the acute pain when the bones moved. I'd think that the placebo effect would apply more to chronic pain.
Then again, I have no medical training, and am extrapolating based on precisely one case, so my opinion is pretty much worth what you paid for it...
ibuprofen - that's the one that makes my stomach hurt. Must be the other one that blocks me up. Thanks, folks.
Thanks Sam
Broken collar bones. Yes. I have an interesting story of one of those later today.
John
I can't tolerate codine. It makes me feel like a zombie. I would prefer to be in pain then feel like that.
I find that paracetamol works for me. I take 500mg 4 times a day but find that the analgesia has worn off by the last hour or two before the next dose.
About a year ago, I got a headache whilst working in Munich and so purchased some paracetamol from a German pharmacy. I read the patient information leaflet with care (my German isn't great) and it informed me that the correct dose was dependent on my weight (I think it was 1 tablet for each 40 Kg of body weight- I don't remember the dose per tablet). I calculated my dose and the analgesia didn't wear off between doses.
Perhaps compound analgesics are being used as the next step up from paracetamol because people of above average weight are being given a standard dose of paracetamol which isn't enough and leads them (and their doctors) to think that they need something stronger?
Does this make any sense to the Drs reading?
Are there any German reading who can provide more details?
Should people in the UK be trusted to work out their own doses for over the counter medicines?
Before we were able to give morphine in my ambulance service we had tramadol available as an IV analgesic. Worked ok for some patients and not at all for others - but it made pretty much everyone feel sick! Oh and we had nubain (nalbuphine) and that was pretty much useless for everyone :-)
Thanks for the advice (comments’ posts) - you’ve solved one of the problems that’s been bothering me. I’ve broken my leg and been prescribed a mix of Paracetamol, Tramadol, Diclofenac and Asprin. The most painful part of my affliction to date has been the constipation (ruptured haemorrhoids) and stomach pains. In hospital, I had morphine on drip - which wasn’t all it’s cracked up to be; Tramadol proved better for (my) pain relief, and helped give a decent night’s sleep. Not sure what the others do, but being the good lad I am, I take whatever I’m told. I find an occasional glass of champagne helps.
After working my way up 'the ladder' as I've heard some of you describe it, I tried Tramadol after the top dose of co-codamol was no longer controlling my pain effectively (I have a degenerative condition which causes lots of pain but which will only be fixed by the operation that I'm waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting for - don't get ill in North Yorkshire... the PCT can't afford to do owt).
Whereas the top dose of co-codamol was killing perhaps 75% of my pain, the top dose of tramadol only hit 50%. I don't have that high an opinion of tramadol to be honest, but if the placebo effect of it helps people, then why not?
I'm now on dihydrocodeine, combined with naproxen and paracetamol and I'm 100% pain free - hurrah! However, I've found that I don't get any of the euphoria/spaced out feelings when taking opioids, just pain relief. I must be a bit weird.
Tramadol is very trendy at the moment. Unfortunately for all it's marvelous pain killing properties its serotonergic effects mean that it also interacts with most commonly used antidepressants leading to an increased risk of the rare but potentially fatal serotonin syndrome. This is complicated further by the fact that chronic pain and depression are often interlinked so its a very common combination. Most doctors I know are completely unaware of the interaction. Of all the commonly used painkillers this one has the most drug-drug interactions so this stuff about it being carried on ambulances because it doesn't react with other meds is a bit of a myth.
Tramadol is an interesting one. Supposedly it has a number needed to treat of ~17 to achieve an affect, compared to ~4 with dihydrocodeine. It certainly is a favourite of nurses, wanting it written up PRN for patients. Unfortunately, I commonly see patients having both dihydrocodeine and tramadol. This is illogical. If one weak opioid is ineffective, you should move up the analgesic ladder, not sideways.
I have also seen young females hallucinate, old patients enter acute delirium and interactions with SSRI medications.
There are also suggestions that as tramadol is a partial opioid agonist, it can actually antagonise the effects of dihydrocodeine and morphine.
I am not a pharmacologist, just a mere orthopaedic SHO, but in several years on the wards, there are few situations that require the coprescription of tramadol.
anonymous said...
Tramadol is very trendy at the moment. Unfortunately for all it's marvelous pain killing properties its serotonergic effects mean that it also interacts with most commonly used antidepressants leading to an increased risk of the rare but potentially fatal serotonin syndrome. This is complicated further by the fact that chronic pain and depression are often interlinked so its a very common combination. Most doctors I know are completely unaware of the interaction. Of all the commonly used painkillers this one has the most drug-drug interactions so this stuff about it being carried on ambulances because it doesn't react with other meds is a bit of a myth.
Monday, June 18, 2007 11:09:00 PM
Delete
++++++
I agree.
I have realised that I know bugger all about this drug. I NEVER initiate it, never. Trouble is, the hospital does. I try to get people off it. I don't trust it.
John
I'm very much against the "trendy" drugs. It seems that those are the ones that don't really do the job, and leave a lot of people messed up.
The thing about tramadol is that it does work but people like it a bit too much. Its a dirty drug with lots of side effects and interactions. If its the new co-proxamol then that can only be a bad thing no matter how good a painkiller it is. This country is still full of little old ladies addicted to co-proxamol. The generics companies made so much of it that the country is still awash with it. It may have been officially discontinued in 2005 but it'll be years before we stop seeing prescriptions for it.
I've just come from six months working on a geriatrics ward. If anyone arrived with tramadol on the chart, it got crossed off. Too many instances of patients going stark raving bonkers and worse. Admittedly, I saw a selected vulnerable portion of the older population.
Simple WHO analgesia ladder generally worked quite well.
I'd be really interested to get the opinion of the doctors who lurk here - what would be your preference in place of tramadol for a second rung analgesic? I'd be really interested to know what alternatives are there to consider: I'd tried both codeine & dihydrocodeine and failed to get any discernible pain relief from either, and was advised by the GP at the time that I was one of the c. 10% of people who didn't have the right enzyme in the liver to convert the prodrug to morphine, hence why I was switched to tramadol.
I'm pretty alarmed by the overwhelmingly negative opinions and will most definitely dicuss this with both my GP and the pain clinic (so not asking for a diagnosis or recommendation!) but would just like to be more informed about what are feasible middle-rung alternatives to tramadol if codeine is a no-go?
Thanks again,
Katy
I have codeine 30 and diclofenac-slow-release (motifiene/voltarol) prescribed for the management of chronic shoulder dislocation.
I also make good use of paracetamol 500s, ibuprofen 200s and if I could get codeine 8mg over the counter I would - but I manage with co-codamol 8/500s reasonably well.
I have now got to the point where I only need my prescription medication a few days a month, and maybe a week in twelve when the shoulders really play up. I can to some extent mix and match OTC and prescription which is often useful...
As for Tramadol, one of my friends who has some obscure spina-biffida like condition has it, she hates it because it gives her terrible insomnia and makes her mental health problems a lot worse.
I think there is too little research into individual responses to medication, and perhaps not enough general understanding of placebo effect. Just because it isn't pharmaceutically active doesn't mean it doesn't do some good...
I QUOTE FROM THE DOC
"Patients may truly need something stronger than paracetamol but, in many cases, they are only benefiting from the placebo effect of something perceived to be “stronger” than over the counter preparations.
"
With due respect to the doctor who wrote this why would someone ask for a pain killer if they simply did not need one? the only reason is surley is addiction and im well aware pain killers are addictive .
He says 'placebo effect'? im sorry but if i dont take my pain meds i suffer terrible pain all day long and paracetamol alone just does not work full stop, By what he's said this is the same as saying anything else doesent work???? He said "perceived to be “stronger"
believe me Tramdol does work, and personally for myself i take tramadol and im able then to relax because chronic pain can make you tense and irratable thus it works two fold, 1 to help stop the pain.2 the knock on effect if you can relax it helps reduce the pain again, the point im making is pain managment is a complex issue,with placebo included in this but seriously im glad hes not my GP
as this attitude shows for sure He needs more training and hes not the only GP to show lack of skill in pain managment, maybe if he has a dose of what i have he'd soon change his mind
from a
Chronic pelvic pain sufferer
simon
hi, I usually buy tramadol here online so I'd like to know if tramadol is addictive drug.
Sam
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