Doctor bashing (4) - Dr Meanswell and The Shrink
One of the joys of returning to the medical blogosphere after a long break is catching up on new blogs, and blogs I had missed. The tantalisingly named Lake Cocytus is in fact the hiding place of The Shrink, a consultant psychiatrist who clearly enjoys his job and sees patients personally. By reading the small print of a statute he has found a way to get free home care for at-risk patients. Brilliant. Sadly, The Shrink does not like GPs. Well, each to his own. He tells a worrying story of neglect and incompetence by a GP who he portrays as failing to provide proper care for a patient.The Shrink’s article is short and the inference is that the GP he describes is a generic representative of the whole profession. But, as the script writer might say, is there a back story? There usually is. So let me tell a back story, a real story. Every GP in Britain will identify with it as will anyone who is caring for an elderly relative.
All GPs have a large number of frail elderly patients, usually female, who live alone and who are struggling. The subprime minister has deemed these people to be in need of "social" care, not medical care. Hospital policy and government targets mean that medical admissions are geared to achieving "completed events". The hospital scores points when a patient is discharged. There are no points for follow-ups. Elderly patients with multiple medical problems never have "completed events." One problem leads on to another. But forget that Nye Bevan “cradle to grave” nonsense. The elderly only need “social” care and the NHS does not cover that.
CCF : Congestive Cardiac FailurePoor old Mrs Boggins has osteroporotic fractures, a bit of CCF, a bit of COPD, a bit of faecal incontinence, a bit of urinary incontinence and a lot of loneliness (daughter lives 60 miles away and rarely visits). She used to come down to the Health Centre but has not been able to for six months. Her GP, Dr Meanswell, has asked the district nurses to go in, and they have. They say this is not a “nursing “problem and refer her to social services. Dr Meanswell asked them to get some incontinence pads, but they are not allowed to. Only the incontinence nurse quacktitioner can do that. She visits but before she can have some pads, Mrs B has to do some homework. She has to fill in a fluid chart for a week and try to rate her poo with the help of the Bristol Stool Chart. (See "Defining the Euroturd") If she passes the test, she may get some pads. In the meantime, well, it’s a bit smelly but that is not a nursing problem and the incontinence nurse quacktitioner does not “do” hands on nursing.
One day Mrs Boggins' has a fall. A neighbour asks Dr Meanswell to call. "She should be in hospital, doctor". Mrs B has indeed had a fall. Nothing broken, but she has been on the floor for two hours. So Dr Meanswell sends her in. He phones the hospital and a gloriously inexperienced F1 gives him the third degree about WHY he needs to send her in. "This sounds like a social admission". Bloody right, but Dr Meanswell can't say that because if he does they will not take her. So he picks a medical problem at random and says she has CCF. Always a good one. Anyone can see her ankles are swollen. Acutally, Dr Meanswell knows that her ankle oedema is due to stasis and veins more than her well controlled CCF but it will fool the HCPs. Mrs B is kept in A/E for three hours and fifty-nine minutes and then moved to a New Labour pretend ward. The F1 changes her furosemide to bumetanide and sends her home with a note saying "GP to check E & U in two weeks. Please refer to the falls team."
The "Falls Team" is a collection of HCPs who duly see Mrs B and say "Is she depressed? Suggest psychiatric assessment." Mrs B is not psychiatrically ill, she is lonely. Dr Meanswell knows that a psychiatric assessment is unnecessary but, once it has been suggested, albeit only by some over promoted quacktitioners, if he does not ask for one, he could later be in difficulties defending his decision not to refer.
Four weeks later Mrs B gets to the Psycho-geriatric Clinic. Go into any medical school and say to the students “Hands up those who want to be a psycho-geriatrician”. It is not a popular speciality and there are not enough consultants. So Mrs B sees the locum consultant who does not speak much English and after a brief consultation inappropriately puts her on mirtazepine giving her two weeks supply. He does not offer her any follow up but does send a letter in bad English saying “GP to monitor mirtazepine.” Two nights later (long before the letter has even got to New Delhi for typing never mind to Dr Meanswell) an unnecessarily medicated Mrs B falls out of bed. The call-centre summons an ambulance. The wise and learned paramedics put her back to bed and leave a note saying "patient declined admission - GP please assess."
Mrs B did not decline admission. She was not really given the choice. The neighbour tells Dr Meanswell that the paramedics told Mrs B that there was no point in going into hospital. These days they are right. Dr Meanswell checks her over again. Nothing has changed except she has lost more weight and is frail and at risk. He dreads another tongue lashing from some pompous F1 but nonetheless suggests hospital. “Oh not again, please” says Mrs B “last time I was left on a trolley, and I needed to go to the loo, and there was no one to help and so....”
Dr Meanswell goes back to the health centre and phones social services. He is bad tempered and shouts at them. Why has the social care not started? “Ah," says the social worker, "we are sending in someone next week to assess her to see what care package she needs”. Dr Meanswell has already assessed her many times. But that does not count.
Mrs B. now stops eating. She does not drink much either. She gets dehydrated. So Dr Meanswell has to send her in again. This time she is kept for 36 hours, rehydrated, and sent home with a note saying "GP to check E & U in two weeks". No follow up.
And so it goes on. And on. Backwards and forwards. In and out. Lots of “completed events” for the three star, foundation trust hospital. Lots of "assessments" but still no care for Mrs Boggins.
Finally, in extremis, Dr Meanswell, desperate to get some help, decides to see if he can wangle a psychiatric admission. Where Dr Meanswell works, you can't refer directly to a psychiatrist, you have to refer to the CMHT, a load of well meaning amateurs. Fortunately, on this occasion, a good psychiatrist gets involved. Like Dr Meanswell, he is a real doctor not a “falls team quacktitioner" and so, like Dr Meanswell, he can tell that Mrs B is not mentally ill.
With some difficulty he persuades Mrs B to go into hospital again. Three days later, she dies. It might have been last time, or next time, it just happens to be this time.
Was it really like this with The Shrink’s GP? Who knows? But it does not matter. There are some bad architects in this country and some bad solicitors and, believe me, there are some bad GPs too. That is not the point. There are also thousands of Dr Meanswells, and tens of thousands of frail, elderly men and women who are not getting the care they so desperately need.
The only thing reminiscent of a care package here is the pass the parcel game everyone plays in the NHS. Try not to be holding the patient when the music stops or you will have to do something. Instead, do your "assessment", then pass on the patient as quickly as possible for yet another meaningless "assessment". Each assessment scores points and hits targets. This proves to the government that all is well in the NHS.
Labels: CMHT, elderly, GPs, psychiatry, social services, The Shrink
A care package








45 Comments:
I can see why some people might still want to do medical degrees. It's harder to see why they would want to work in the NHS.
Are you my GP? This is the most accurate description of the NHS/social care game I've ever read.
Dr Crippen's most important point is this. That people are going without the care they need (young as well as elderly) It is NOT about criticising or scoring points off the different professions, bad GP's, inexperienced juniors, out of their depth nurse practitioners, incompetent social workers, it's about exposing the failings of the current system and attempting to do something to change that.
Bendy Girl
"...the inference is that the GP he describes is a generic representative of the whole profession."
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A bit like the inference that the "nursey" you often describe here is a generic representation of the whole profession Dr C.?
And I don't suppose for one second that it could possibly be the case that the GP in The Shrink's story was actually remiss at all. Could it?
Hello mousie
1. Had you read the article properly, you would not have been able to write the last paragraph.
You should note that I said:
"Was it really like this with The Shrink’s GP? Who knows? But it does not matter. There are some bad architects in this country and some bad solicitors and, believe me, there are some bad GPs too. That is not the point. There are also thousands of Dr Meanswells, and tens of thousands of frail, elderly men and women who are not getting the care they so desperately need."
Take your medication and read the article properly.
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2. You really don't understand dumbing down do you? But maybe that is not surprising because I suspect you yourself are a "nursey"
And please, don't suggest that I am making inferences; you need to check out the difference between "imply" and "infer".
When I use the word "nursey" you may take any inference you wish to take. That is a matter for you. For my part, I am rarely implying anything; I am almost always openly stating that over promoted HCPs, be they ex-nurses or paramedics or whatever, are not doctors. I call the whole lot "quacktitioners" or, if they used to be real nurses, I call them "nursey". I include within the quacktitioner group the the ridiculous GPwSIs who, although doctors, are trying to do jobs for which they are not trained.
Nurses are taking over medical roles for which they are not trained. Most nursey nurses have no insight into the generality of medicine and into the fact that it is a holistic discipline. They are proprietorial, clutching on to their tiny piece of the medical jigsaw completely unable to see the big picture.
Nurses who actually nurse are wonderful .... but sadly these days few and far between.
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The most worrying thing about your comment is that you are missing the main point of the article. It is not about me, or you, or doctors (good or bad) or quacktitioners. It is, as someone has already commented, about the system. Most of all, it is about an unfortunate elderly lady who is being tossed around largely by a load of inexperienced HCPs, all doing their protocol driven "assessments" and all contributing nothing to this poor lady's health.
What we need is for some of these absurd creatures, all a creation of a Stalinist government, to put down their clip boards, roll up their sleeves and do some hands on nursing care.
Sadly, that is not going to happen. Nursey nurses are now, as is often said, too posh to wash.
Poor old Mrs Boggins.
John
My oh my!
Just to clear up a couple things, if I may :
I trained as a GP before dabbling in mental health and finding I was home. I've huge empathy for GP colleagues who are under resourced. It's not a job I could do (and I know, having done it) for love nor money. Thus, most GPs are better folk than I, enduring thankless duties and government machinations I'm happily removed from.
I've said how, Most of the GPs in my corner are very good indeed. They are committed, receptive to ideas, often doing what's best for their patients even if that does fall a touch outside protocols, guidelines and edits of What Thou Shalt Do. GPs with common sense, this makes me happy."
I like that GPs and psychiatrists share happiness.
I love that a GP in Wales, over 30 years ago, did great research in primary care that I still quote and thus informs me and the next generation of psychiatrists.
I really really do have an excellent working relationship with GPs in my corner. Most of the are excellent with mental health problems, I'm sure almost all of them are good GPs. I wrote 'bout suboptimal care simply because it was newsworthy, it was remarkable, thus I remarked upon it (since invariably GPs in my patch are stunningly good).
Many folk are bashing GPs. I'm not one of them :-)
Dear Dr Crippen,
A perfect summary of the situation as it is now! However, once Lord darzi's proposals for polyclinics are in place, then GPs will no longer have these problems - they (GPs) will be subsumed into the system and become one of the buckpassers with no ongoing INDIVIDUAL responsibility for that patient's care. That is the problem with the Nu-NHS - personal responsibility is being lost to organisations and with it goes any hope of continuity.
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"Was it really like this with The Shrink’s GP? Who knows? But it does not matter."
I think it does matter. We are all working within the same (albeit crappy at times) system but most of us do our best for our patients, as did your "Dr Meanswell". The GP in The Shrink's story left an old, vulnerable and desperately ill lady without the medical treatment she needed.
"There are some bad architects in this country and some bad solicitors and, believe me, there are some bad GPs too. That is not the point. There are also thousands of Dr Meanswells, and tens of thousands of frail, elderly men and women who are not getting the care they so desperately need."
I couldn't agree more. But that isn't the case in The Shrink's story, is it?
"Take your medication and read the article properly."
Unnecessarily rude.
"You really don't understand dumbing down do you?"
Standard Dr C. response... "You just don't get it do you?" Predictable, I suppose.
"But maybe that is not surprising because I suspect you yourself are a "nursey"
Quite right, Dr C. I am just a nurse and therefore, by definition, too stupid to "get it". And, for the record, I'm neither over-promoted, trying to do a job for which I am not trained, unfamiliar with hands-on nursing care or too posh to wash.
Certainly the lady in your story was failed by the system and by all the "absurd creatures" who used to be nurses and doctors in it. But that isn't the case in The Shrink's post. That was down to simple incompetence.
The idea of the "social admission" is not a new one. The problem we have now is a direct result of nobody really caring. We see many,many Mrs B's on MAU. Unfortunately they are often sent home too early because the system at the moment no longer allows for management of complex medical problems in hospital- you have to identify one in order to move Mrs B from MAU onto, say the cardiac ward or the respiratory ward. Unless she is very elderly she is unlikely to get a bed on the elderly care ward- these are now almost exclusively for rehabilitation- just being old and a bit decrepit is not trendy. Local discharge policies become battle grounds between the PCT and the secondary care provider (god, I hate these terms but if you want to communicate with them then you had better learn the infuriating lingo). If Mrs B needs "nursing care" she will be assessed by one team, if she needs what used to be called a "home help" it will be a different team...it drives me mad. In the middle is stuck the poor old lady who will rarely be given any choice about where she goes or what she would like. Its not the fault of any one professional group (and how we love to blame the others....the social workers, the community matrons)- we have a society that worships youth and abhors the old. As an aside, I would lke to point out that I am not a "nursy" and take great pride in my job. I am not above washing patients and do not tolerate this sort of attitude amongst staff that I work with- staffing levels are the main cause of HCIs, pressure sores etc....3 qualified staff to care for 35 medical patients is dangerous and wrong. No one listens to me.
I think it does matter. We are all working within the same (albeit crappy at times) system but most of us do our best for our patients, as did your "Dr Meanswell". The GP in The Shrink's story left an old, vulnerable and desperately ill lady without the medical treatment she needed.
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You STILL don't get it.
Anyone visiting Mrs Boggins at random could so have assumed that Dr Meanswell was neglecting here. As it happens, he was not, but that does not stop the world and his wife slagging him off. All the neighbours are saying "that Dr Meanswell visits but he never does anything"
The Shrinks GP may well have been an incompetent twerp.
Given the current system, what, pray, do you think can be done? You don't say. What you don't realise is that we can't get people into hospital when we want, we can't get them care at home when we want and, to top it all, when, finally and too late, there is a crisis and they do get into hospital, they die of hospital acquired infection because "nursey" does not do nursing care any more but instead had handed it down the food chain to unqualified ancialliaries who have not got a clue about aseptic technique.
And please, just look at the sarcastic, snotty comment you made about GPs on the Shrinks comments column
John
Dr. C,
I work in MAU and at the moment, we have had several patients- all like Mrs.Boggins, in on a social admission. They are never, ever sent home without the "package of care IN PLACE". Which may in part be why there are so few beds in the hospital at present.
Not everyone just sends them home with no care because they can't be bothered.
"What you don't realise is that we can't get people into hospital when we want, we can't get them care at home when we want and, to top it all, when, finally and too late, there is a crisis and they do get into hospital, they die of hospital acquired infection because "nursey" does not do nursing care any more but instead had handed it down the food chain to unqualified ancialliaries who have not got a clue about aseptic technique."
GPs in my area appear to have no problem getting patients admitted. They simply refer them to the appropriate specialist team by telephone, then arrange an ambulance. (Or, if the patient is too sick, they dial 999.) Sure, occasionally there are problems with the system, and I'm sure you'll be happy to give me lots of examples... but that's because it is overstretched, as is everything in today's NHS.
"Nursey" does still do nursing care for the 28 patients on her ward. Things that are "handed down the food chain" (rather derogatory to the HCAs but I'll let them speak up for themselves) are done so because, invariably, they can be done so safely and appropriately. Yes, even aseptic technique.
Incidentally, it wasn't nurses who decided that it should be so - such things are necessary because of staffing ratios. You'd have to speak to someone far higher up than I about that!
My comment on Lake Cocytus reflects my own, far too frequent, experiences of similar incompetence. Sarcastic, maybe, (that's just the kind of gal I am, I'm afraid!) but borne of frustration.
OK. The system sucks. Working at the coal face in secondary care is not exactly how I pictured my nursing career winding down. I had thought about a matron/head nurse post not so long ago....until I realised that the HR idea about the job and my idea were poles apart- box ticking vs patients advocate. Trying to run a 35 bedded ward with 3 qualified staff is a reality. Every day. If only half of the patients are incontinent, it is a good day. As has been said before, assume 30 minutes per patient- taking 2 staff members each time (clean and change patient-change bedding/chair covers- place patient back in bed/chair) and thats only covering one of the ADLs. In a 12.5 hour shift, there are other tasks to be done that legally can only be done by a qualified nurse and not a HCA- dressings, IVs, drug rounds,suctioning, admissions, discharges, doctors rounds, documentation (breaks...oh yes, they are a legal requirement too but no one ever got sued because the nursing staff weren't able to have a glass of water during 12.5 hours- or a toilet break)...when I first qualified the staffing levels meant that one qualified nurse (RGN or EN) would be caring for 4 patients on a general ward. Each would normally have an HCA or a student or sometimes even both. The number of extended tasks was far less...not all wards required nurses to give IV drugs, for example. Now our 35 patients get 3 nurses (including one who if its me will also be the bleep holder/bed manager/in charge of HDU...tick any of the above)and each nurse will have 0.75 of an HCA. The number of extended tasks has increased. Tell me thats progress. Tell me that reduction in nurse:patient ratios have no direct impact on patient care. The endless sisters meetings that I attend- we all have the same story to tell but nobody is listening. We need more nurses to stay on the wards. YES?. We need to pay them a decent wage, increase the numbers per shift and give more prospects for promotion that allow you to stay on the wards. At present, unless you get a sisters post, you will be a Band 5 for life...maximum salary at the moment of around £25K. Half of your working hours will be at nights and weekends. How many other professions can you say that about? No matter how much experience you gain, you will stay exactly where you are, will not be allowed to attend any courses that might expand your professional development (unless legally we have to let you attend, say the ILS or ALS courses-verbatim from our directorate head last year, as we need to save even more money). I have friends who left school with me and went to work in M&S on the tills. They get plenty of perks, good prospects for promotion, a creche at work, can sign up to do a whole host of in-house qualifications as well as the possibility of doing a professional qualification...I long ago realised that my salary would never keep pace with most of my friends but that didn't matter as I loved my job. Now with all good concience, I could not recommend nursing as a career to anyone. I still love my job but the daily battering is getting harder and harder to withstand. Only last week, I had to tell the 2 HCAs who have just completed their NVQ3 that although I would love them to stay on the unit, we have no Band 3 jobs...so they can stay as a Band 2...same pay as before they decided to do the NVQ. If they are militant enough, they will stick to the Band 2 job description and lose the skills that they obtained during the NVQ. More likely the unit will get two Band 3s for the cost of some Band 2s. Investment in people?
Hope I die before I get old.
Another good post highlighting the target-led culture of the NHS; where every service is designed to meet government targets with the tick box mentality being implemented by NHS managers whom have little, or no clinical qualifications or expertise!
I can think of a few ways to slash the NHS wages bill!
Mongoose - Townsend wrote My Generation in 1965, but of course, mistreatment of the elderly long predates The Who.
In the 70's doctors coined the phrase 'Granny bashing', but the litany of abuse still goes on and on, so, perhaps it's not suprising that some have adopted a scattergun approach when it comes to aportioning blame - take a look at these dreadful items;
http://www.healthdemocracy.org.uk/healthdemocracy.org.uk/The NHS/NHSPerformance/ServicesForElderlyPeople/Sources.htm
"I trained as a GP before dabbling in mental health and finding I was home."
I was going to make a smart remark about Psychiatrists and stethoscopes but you've stolen my thunder!
I find the whole sorry episode deeply depressing and somehow don't have a great deal of optimism for the future. I think that I'll shortly start making provision for myself, once I'm in my dotage and in poor condition... I reckon a big bottle of barbiturates and a really good bottle of single malt should do the trick.
a&e charge nurse...
Ahhh, 1965... I started primary school. Didn't discover music until the seventies and look what happened. The Bay City Bleedin' Rollers! The country's gone to the dogs, I tell you.
Are there nursing homes in the NHS? It sounds as though these people have exhausted the community care resources and need to be in assisted living or a SNF. Long-term care insurance make it over there yet?
As Dr Crippen says most GP's will recognise this situation.
It is quite clear in this exmaple that this elderly lady has a mixture of medical and social needs. Her medical needs are not enough to require admission but when her social needs require action they require action NOW. Social care cannot meet this need within that timescale in my experience.
And when the music stops the GP is left holding the parcel as he/she is the one who has "primary care" responsibility and the only professional in medical or social care who is still trained to have a holistic role. All other involved parties pass the buck back to the GP.
This kind of situation happens to my patients ALL the time. Dr Crippen have you been bugging my phone as I'm sure you must be writing about me???
Oh, here we go again. Everybody else is rubbish and the GP's the only one who cares.
"The "Falls Team" is a collection of HCPs who duly see Mrs B and say "Is she depressed? Suggest psychiatric assessment." Mrs B is not psychiatrically ill, she is lonely. Dr Meanswell knows that a psychiatric assessment is unnecessary but, once it has been suggested, albeit only by some over promoted quacktitioners, if he does not ask for one, he could later be in difficulties defending his decision not to refer."
What on earth would you be saying if the team had suspected she was depressed and not requested an assessment? If the GP feels the person isn't depressed and psych involvement isn't required, fair enough, but why criticise staff for raising a concern? They can't win.
"Dr Meanswell goes back to the health centre and phones social services. He is bad tempered and shouts at them. Why has the social care not started? “Ah," says the social worker, "we are sending in someone next week to assess her to see what care package she needs”. Dr Meanswell has already assessed her many times. But that does not count."
Here's some news for you. The NHS is not the only service which is under-resourced and over-stretched. Social work departments have waiting lists too, and not enough care to go around. My dept is currently only providing care to facilitate discharge or prevent admission because that's all we can afford to provide. We all hate it but we have no power to change it because the budget is set by elected councillors and there's no election for the next few years. Dr Meanswell has assessed has he? Gone in, assessed the woman's ability to walk, transfer (chair, bed, toilet, bath/shower), to maintain self-care, to cook, to shop, to clean, to eat, to turn the fire on and off, to pay bills, to manage her medication? Has he assessed what care is required, what tasks need to be done, when and how often? I doubt it. Never in my 15 1/2 years in practice have I known any doctor do that.
Falls teams are generally made up of physios, OTs and maybe nurses. They are the experts in dealing with falls. Would you like them to be replaced with doctors? Would a doctor be able to prescribe the right walking aid, adapt the environment, teach the new mobility and transfer techniques to reduce the risk of further falls.
You always have many valid points to make about the state of the NHS - and you always, always ruin it with an ignorant misinformed arrogant rant about other professionals. Every single time.
"and, believe me, there are some bad GPs too"
yep yep yep
thanks for actually owning up to that of skated over reality at last
no one
The Shrink’s article is short and the inference is that the GP he describes is a genereic representative of the whole profession...
Rather like the repeated inferences (well, not so much inferences but outright explicit statements) that you make that all nurses are thick, ignorant and too posh to wash.
Sorry John, but when you constantly engage in gratuitous nurse-bashing (and EMT-bashing, and midwife-bashing etc, etc...) then I lose the capacity to care when you think your own profession has been affronted.
Don't worry Dr C help is at hand.
As we won't be allowed to work enough hours to cover hospitals 24 hours a day from this summer there has been the creation of the UK's first PA course. I think we just took the one from the US, however as it dosn't start till next year and will have to be in place before the training actually starts the hospital at night team will be made of people who havn;t been trained.
As has been said here many times the number of NP/ENP/ etc is very low in England there cannot be enough of them to run around the whole hospital bailing out the couple of F1/2's who are on duty.
Ah well at least we know with a 24 month course you can be qualified to F2 level. i guess i am a bit low as it took me many more years to get that qualified.
"It is thought a newly graduated Physician Assistant will enter at a level equivalent to F2 and ST1, ST2 training levels. Similar are already in place such as the Anaesthetic Care Practitioners and Nurse Practitioners".
I guess the NP's ate not good enough so we need a new breed.
It is a 2 year course aimed at graduates with 2.1/2.2 degrees in Biological Disciplines".
Well nice to know those at "ST2" level i.e. my new boss will have done several years less training than me and have been in post 1 day with the ability do a better job than i could after about 9 years training (with at least 4 of those post graduation).
I wonder if the pay is better...might be worth looking into.
http://www.ukapa.co.uk/
Apparently the RCGP are going to "discuss possible associate membership for PAs".
Nice.
he repeated inferences (well, not so much inferences but outright explicit statements) that you make that all nurses are thick, ignorant and too posh to wash.
Sorry John, but when you constantly engage in gratuitous nurse-bashing (and EMT-bashing, and midwife-bashing etc, etc...) then I lose the capacity to care when you think your own profession has been affronted.
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Once again (and again and again and again) what I "bash" is NOT nurses etc, it is dumbing down, and the people who happily and arrogantly assume they can do a job (i.e. being a doctor) after a one week training course rather than after the old fashioned 5 year course open only to students with staggeringly good A levels.
For the record - again - I bash the equally preposterous GPwSIs who try to do jobs for which they are not trained.
Finally, remember this. To an extent, I am letting of steam. I am saddened and frustrated as the British medical profession is being destroyed by this dumbing down. But I say what I say openly in a public forum and I NEVER censor comments however critical they may be. If you could take a look at what hundreds of doctors say in the privacy of the DNUK forums (fora?) you would regard me as a role model of moderation. Dumbing down causes the most extraordinary vitriol and outrage amongst doctors. But most of them will not say so in public.
John
Dr John Crippen
"There are some bad architects in this country and some bad solicitors and, believe me, there are some bad GPs too," commented Dr Crippen. Indeed there are. However, a few high profile "bad eggs" can easily destroy the trust and respect that doctors command. I wrote in my book ”The Cockroach Catcher” that "... Those were the days when doctors in U.K. were amongst the top three most respected professions and Members of Parliament shared the bottom ranking with Estate Agents. The doctor’s position had over the last ten years moved nearer the bottom end with no such counter moves by Politicians...” As examples, I quoted the Shipman, Cleveland and Bristol scandals. The "doctor bashing" rot started some time ago! My Blog today describes the highly respected position held by the Tradtional Chinese Doctor in the old days of China.
I thought I would pipe up here in defence of F1s who I think are pretty hard done by by this article, and point out the following.
In many hospitals its pretty standard that if a GP wants an admission, they talk to a senior admitting doctor, explain the case and either send them in or get given telephone advice. Thus the senior doctor can screen out inappropriate referrals. In some places there has been so much dross sent in that nurse led telephone systems are in place. They are horrificly bad. Gp calls nurse in random call centre, nurse decides if its necessary and what sepcialty it falls in, then calls relevant hospital MAU and talks to the sister in charge.
However, as a surgical F1 on call i get multiple calls a day from GPs. GPs like i would imagine Dr Crippen. They deliberately ask for me at switchboard. Simply because they know a F1 cannot turn away a referral froma senior doctor. Likewise an F1 can't spend his day being piggy in the middle between GP and senior doc. So F1 must OK the GP sending in patient.
One GP in my area uses it to great effect. He personally sends in about 10-20% of ALL our referrals to A&E/MAU. Yesterday I had to see a man sent in by him who was worried because he hadn't farted in 24 hours and is 'normally windy++'. I kid you not.
My advice for GPs the land over is this. IF you want to talk to the organ grinder. If you want to NOT have to send patients into hospital.
Then stop calling ME the F1 and go direct to source. Or at least don't be such a patronising pr*** when we um and arr on the phone because we've never had to deal with a patient with 'that ailment' before.
"One GP in my area uses it to great effect. He personally sends in about 10-20% of ALL our referrals to A&E/MAU. Yesterday I had to see a man sent in by him who was worried because he hadn't farted in 24 hours and is 'normally windy++'. I kid you not."
...you couldn't make it up!!!!
John - your explanation of your rants on 'dumbing down' as you see it need depersonalising. It's not the individuals at fault, it's the system, which you're all part of.
An absolutely accurate description of the farce that is the 'care package' system. When my grandmother developed Alzheimers and had a malignant melanoma on her leg diagnosed my family tried to get a care package sorted for her. Despite the fact that both my parents are experts in this field, having run an EMI nursing home for 20 years (my dad is RMN who specialised in geriatric care)they still had to kick, scream and fight every step of the way to get anything done to help her. All I can say is god help those who don't have a family to fight for them because no one else is going to.
kirsten says "Everybody else is rubbish and the GP's the only one who cares"
No, everyone else decides that it isn't for them and the GP has to pick up the pieces. As GPs, we can't just say that it isn't our problem although the newer, shiftworking, shop floor thinking Doctors are getting good at it.
When the "traditional" GP service has been destroyed and filled with people who don't really care then the losers will be the patients, especially the elderly ones.
But anyway, what have patients got to do with it?
"The Shrink’s article is short and the inference is that the GP he describes is a generic representative of the whole profession"
Er, no it isn't. I've jsut read the artical and as far as I can see it is exactly what it purports to be, a sepcific example of an individual GP having failed to provide suitable care. There is no genralisation about GP's and no inference that this is the norm. If I were feeling nasty, I might suggest that the only inference comes from you, that this IS a commin situation, and you are respodning to an accusation which has not been made becasue you have a guilty concience. But that surely couldn't be true. Could it?
Have you considered getting yourself assessed in relation to these paranoid tenadencies of yours?
As a part time HCA while I study I'd just like to say that HCAs form a very important part of the nursing team and although are not "qualified" are more than able to carry out basic nursing tasks and take pride in them.
Could the collected voice of nurses and associated professions start making some constructive comments and stop this ganging up/bullying on someone who is simply expressing an opinion and letting off steam. The fact is that things are going wrong with the care of elderly people. It is a fault generated by the way in which NHS services are managed and driven by targets. The reason for poor nursing care can be traced not to the individual but again to funding and management, again driven by politicians and their aparatchiks.
The Doctor is shedding light on the failings of this system. When are you lot going to get with it, or are you so self obsessed with your professional kudos that you can't think outside your pathetic boxes. Or are the A&E charge nurse and friends supporters of health service reform and 'restructuring'. At the very least, your constant pettiness is boring, and your fragile egos unable to sustain you in the face of some uncomfortable truths.
It's clear that Crippen shares the majority of doctors concern at the dumbing down of health care provision. You clearly have the luxury of tunnel vision in your little corner of the behemoth. Please accept that GPs especially have rather a wide angle lens.
a sad story, John, and only too familiar.
There was a time when General Physicians were the Tarts of the medical profession, turning away no-one. Now GPs are the only tarts left, and if Darzi has his way no-one will accept these patients.
Proud to still be a Tart!
Oh. Poor wee dinkums Dr Crippen. Does noone recognise your highly polished halo when you shout orders from your pompous big headed sanctimonious mouth.
Did they not bow down in awe as they looked up at you on your shiny wee pedestal?
Oh. Just to clarify, yes, I am sick of reading it and yes, I do get it, and yes, I am very specifically Crippen bashing and proud of it.
I don't think most people realise what gaps there are in the system. We generally assume we'll get the care we need when we need it, but since the system deems many basic needs to be social needs not health needs, then restricts support for them to people with "substantial" or "critical" needs, there are plenty of people stuck at home without the help they need.
But politicians don't need to worry about them, because they can't get out of the house to vote and any relative caring enough to look after them probably can't get out of the house to vote either.
Hi anonymous, which ever anonymous you are! You say:
"...just to clarify, yes, I am sick of reading it..."
That's fine. You don't have to read any of it.
Can't see why you are so cross. You really do not get it, do you. Don't you understand that there is a crisis of care (lack of) in the community?
My practice has dozens of elderly frail patients who are dying of neglect. Tell me what to do about it, and I will do it.
Do you have any constructive suggestions?
Read this:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article3279954.ece
or this:
"A rapidly ageing population and a squeeze on local authority funding mean fewer old people now qualify for help to pay for assistance with washing, dressing and eating.
The annual report from the Commission for Social Care Inspection (CSCI) found that, despite a 3 per cent rise in the number of over-75s, there has been a fall in the number of elderly people receiving any services — from 867,000 in 2003 to 840,000 in 2006.
Those receiving funded care in their own homes has fallen from 479,000 in 1997 to 358,000 last year.
The Commission is particularly worried about the lack of help on offer when an older person fails to meet the increasingly strict eligibility criteria laid down by local authorities. In many cases families are not given any help to find private services, or are directed to local charities for advice."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3270965.ece
When all these poor people face a crisis, guess who has to deal with it? The family doctor.
I don't know what to do.
I care about it
A lot.
What I hate most, though, is fuck wits who piss into the tent, but have no constructive suggestions.
So make some
John
Dr John Crippen
My wish for 2008 is for everyone in the English-speaking world to find out what "infer" and "imply" mean.
Dr Crippen,
I think you have to make a distinction between the state of the health and social care system and the people that work within it. Although the staff obviously are a part of the system, they often have little control of how that system is administered.
I find your posts fascinating and yet repellent. I am fascinated by the injustices, poor systems, maladmininstration and examples of poor care that you illustrate so well.
I am repelled by your condescending attitude towards those other professionals who struggle in the SAME healthcare system, with the SAME patients, and within the SAME constraints that you do.
I don't pretend to have any answers. I honestly don't think, that unless a root and branch reform of health and social care occurs, that any answers are forthcoming.
I do value the colleagues that I work with, whichever professonal group they belong to, and I do respect them. Unfortunately you don't appear to respect them. You undermine the quality of your posts with your bashing of other HCPs and that is regrettable.
When the NHS was first established, no one could have foreseen just how much the practice of medicine would advance and how costly it was going to be. Take heart attacks...when I first qualified and was working in A&E the numbers of patients who survived a major heart attack were small. The numbers who survived a VF arrest were even smaller. Thanks to improvements the story is now very different. People are living longer and then having a longer period of time when they need medical/nursing/social support. The average age of the typical "little old lady" with a fractured hip is now late 80s/early 90s. My grandmother (back in Ireland) fractured her hip at 95...up until this point she had been independent and lived alone but with family close by. The fall greatly unsettled her...she suddenly "felt" old and never really recovered. She died 3 months afterwards in a convalesence hospital.
Day in, day out I have to fill in endless pieces of paper to justify why my unit needs more staff, more equipment etc etc...it wears you down. It must have been apparent 20 years ago that like the rest of Europe we were heading towards an aging population meltdown. Unfortunately in the UK we were too busy selling off gas and electricity companies to notice. It breaks my heart to see how elderly people are treated- only last night we had a poor woman being pushed from pillar to post because no directorate wanted/was able to take her (broken hip but coupled with a crappy chest, bony metastases and chronic kidney problems). Basically she needed somewhere to die. I really felt for the poor A&E registrar as he tried to argue with the various teams as to why they should take her. Not fit for surgery so T&O wouldn't take her (need to sort her medical problems first), ITU/HDU also said no as her prognosis was too poor to take the only remaining bed (thankfully not my decision to make.)We do not have dialysis on site so renal medicine also out....she eventually died in a side room on MAU but only after myself and the registrar for medicine bullied another medical ward into taking some of our surgical outliers (elective surgery is a money spinner for the Trust, so these patients are always found a bed somewhere) so that we could have a sideroom. Only other option would have been to leave her in A&E on a trolley. No doubt I will be hearing from the unit manager(s) at some point but as far as I am concerned, the important thing was that the lady was able to die in a bed with a bit of privacy for herself and her husband.
I get it. I get it every day because I'm out there in the field dealing with it. Just like you. I know the system stinks. I see them every day. What however do YOU achieve by foulmouthing people who care just as much as you do(you don't have a monopoly on caring), and who find themselves just as impotent as you are to do anything about it.
What am I cross at? I'm cross at you. I'm also somewhat bemused at your inability to recognise that YOU are the one who is curiously, pissing in the tent that I am sitting in without making any more sensible suggestions than to sack anyone who isn't as eminently qualified as you.
Stop whining. Stop bashing everyone who isn't as good as you believe yourself to be and make some constructive comments yourself.
You speak with passion which does you credit. You speak with spurious malice, and that does not.
Deep sigh.
Bravo to Fat Lazy Male Nurse and the anonymous above me. The problem we have isn't with your comments on the system, Dr Crippen. The problem we have is with YOU, and your generalised bad-mouthing of people who care just as much as you do about patient welfare. You are, not to put too fine a point on it, a prat.
And for god's sake, never say the words "don't" "get" "you" and "it" in the same sentence again, it's really getting old now.
Hi John,
I think you took a tad too much license from Shrinks post to raise your own concerns.
Regarding the background story: it's completely made up and full of assumptions. Shrink posted an event that actually occurred - and without making wild assumptions about the nature of anything.
I also think you shot yourself in the anus with:
"I don't know what to do."
followed by:
"What I hate most, though, is fuck wits who piss into the tent, but have no constructive suggestions."
..wheh declaring you have no constructive suggestions.
I forget which king once signed his own death warrant because he never read what he signed.
Crippen's argument is dead. Long live Crippen's argument!
Anyhow, back to your original post;
I can't for the life of me understand why Social Workers don't get half the flogging any other professions do like they used to. I thought it was in their job description -
"Ability to be picked on, maligned and scapegoated for all health related failings"
Now we've moved to nurses and I never read my job description right, obviously.
Q: What ever happened to Part 3 social services accommodation? Wasn't this meant to be the welfare state provision for our aged population?
Another Q: Why is there such pandemonium about quacktitioners amongst the medical fraternity? "Health care" has undergone an evolutionary deconstruction for generations - once there were just doctors... now how many 'professionals' do we have?
Doctors spend substantial amounts of time in university studying medicine. ok, that's - medicine - You are a doctor of m e d i c i n e. (is that clear?)
Who the fuck gave you any degree, diploma or 4-week Doctor-of-Every-profession course to argue about what I do as a nurse? Or what he does as a Social Worker? Or what she does as an OT? Physio? Paramedic?
You know how the rest of the service should run itself just as well as I know you shouldn't be giving diazepam for more than 3 months, but you do, cos you're not trained to be a counsellor. Or to give anti-depressants to someone who can't handle life right now - because you're not a community mental health nurse who can spend time resolving issues. Or Voltarol because you haven't got the training on how to prepare a strengthening exercise programme for someone with chronic knee problems.
To the others in your profession who similarly berate anyone stepping on the toes of the illustrious GP: If you want others to play their part in holisitc care of the patient; stop moaning every time someone says "Well here's a walk in clinic you can attend instead of pestering the GP"
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