Fat lazy male nurse

The blog is written by the self-deprecatingly named “fat lazy male nurse”, so he obviously has a sense of humour, which always helps. In more detail, he describes himself in the following way:
12 years nursing in A&E, being forced to be polite to the kind of people I wouldn't share a life raft with if I was on the Titanic. Now working in Unscheduled Care and realising that the grass really isn't any greener!Obviously a sympathetic sort of chap. And in the profile, he styles himself as an Advanced Nurse Practitioner. Advanced, eh? That sounds good. I wonder what it means? What ever it means, fatman has not taken his medication recently because he is getting in a tizzy about the case currently up in front of the GMC of a doctor who delegated his job to his practice nurses. The GMC is not criticising the nurses. Indeed, for all we know, the nurses may have reported the doctor for inappropriate delegation. But fatman is off on a rant:
The usual nurse bashers have had a dig, Dr Crippen, Ferret Fancier, and the usual bollocks is spouted about quacktitioners. It amazes me that both of them seem to think that this a good excuse to have a pop at nurses again. So let me see if I get this straight. A doctor fucks up, behaves outrageously, and according to his medical brethren it's all the nurses' fault.And then we move on to his little article entitled “Unrealistic expectations” which is worth printing in full.
Unrealistic expectationsI would not want this man seeing a member of my family. This case demonstrates so eloquently why it is not safe to let people like this loose on the front end of the NHS.
I saw a lady recently with a painful foot - it was painful when she woke up. Doesn't remember injuring it, but; 'would like an Xray please in case I broke it rolling over in my sleep'! Now I don't know about you, but since I had my kids I've been a fairly light sleeper and tend to wake at the slightest sound. Before the advent of nippers I would sleep like a log and be virtually unwakeable. However, if I injured myself during the night, I'm sure I would wake up - probably screaming in pain! In order to break a bone in one's foot, it is acknowledged that significant force must be applied to the foot. It doesn't just happen when you roll over in the night. So unless someone drove a car over your foot whilst you were sleeping, a maniac came into your room and twatted your foot with a sledge hammer, or you indulge in skydiving whilst asleep. It is highly unlikely that you have a broken bone in your foot. So an Xray is not indicated, is it? Oh, and some bastard painkillers might help as well! (Unrealistic expectations)
Let us call the "painful foot lady" Alice. Of course, Alice may be someone who rolls up at casualty a dozen times a week with a load of trivial nonsense. But fatman does not say that. To a doctor, this is an interesting case. But doctors like medical puzzles. Solving medical puzzles is what they are trained to do.
Let us think a little more about Alice. As fatman says, it is unlikely she has broken a bone in her foot during the night. So why is her foot suddenly so painful that she takes herself to a hospital. Perhaps she has a pathological fracture. You do not need much trauma for those. You get pathological fractures with cancer. With breast cancer, for example. It would be a bit odd to find a pathological fracture in a foot, but it can happen. I wonder if fatman checked Alice’s breasts? Probably not. What else may be going on? Well, gout is a classic for a painful foot, though you would expect the foot to be red and swollen. I wonder if fatman bothered to have a look? He doesn’t say. Then there is multiple myeloma. Always difficult to diagnose and protean in its presentation. Myeloma causes unexpected bone pain. Or Paget’s disease, that’s a thought. Notoriously painful. And then osteoporotic collapse of an arch in the foot. Fatman does not say how old Alice is. I wonder if he has heard of osteoporosis? Or Paget’s? Or multiple myeloma? And then there is calcium metabolism, and disseminated thyroid malignancies and I have not even moved on to the exotica yet. I will find a medical student and ask for another twenty causes of foot pain that have slipped my brain.
Is it likely that Alice has anything serious? I do not honestly know. Probably not. But it is odd for a person to present with severe sudden onset foot pain in the absence of trauma. Probably nothing too serious but, in my judgement, worth an X-Ray (for reasons that fatman and Alice would not understand) and a physical examination of the rest of her body, and an Hb, and an ESR, and maybe a urate, and maybe even a protein electrophoresis. This is the sort clinical problem I would put to a medical student. It is the sort of clinical problem I would discuss with a fellow doctor whilst fatman is in the sluice washing a bedpan, which is what he is trained to do. Sadly, fatman was not in the sluice.
Fatman was in charge.
Labels: dumbing down, fat lazy male nurse, quacktitioners









46 Comments:
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, resorting to abuse and jumping to every doctors default position - I'm the doctor". This is a story about the lack of common sense to use a painkiller and the use of NHS time, but you see it as a chance to show off your knowledge and ridicule people. If you knew anything you would know that nurse practitioners are expected to work to the standards of the post not the post holder, NP’s are judged by the standard of a medical practitioner and not as a nurse. In England you use Bolam and in Scotland I use Hunter v Hanley. Like it or not the NHS has changed and what doctors have given up the nursing staff have (as usual) stepped into the breach - all research and satisfaction studies show that we are as good as doctors at what we do.
Oh and see my blog here; - http://grumpyrn.blogspot.com/2008/02/gps.html - for my opinion of GP's and ankle/foot X-Rays.
This post has been removed by the author.
http://ferretfancier.blogspot.com
I have also responded.
Grumpyrn.
A couple of points.
The research is minimal and flawed.
Patient satisfaction surveys are as valid as one blogger's hearsay, if that.
The dumbing down is going on and it does have effects on the quality of care patients get.
Whether it be NPs in certain roles or GPwSIs, people are doing jobs that previously required far more education/training.
I don't see how you can possibly defend it.
http://ferretfancier.blogspot.com/2008/01/incoherent-logic-dumbing-down-standards.html
I doubt many of his patients would be thrilled to share a life raft with him either.
There are alot of these "I hate patients" medical blogs popping up all over the place. This guy sounds like he may be "Nurse Ks" mirror image. Sometimes I wonder if they aren't all written by the same person with an untreated case of MPD.
Usually A&E nurses (the good ones) are pretty good at picking up drug-seeking behaviour, as are good A&E docs.
But in my experience, this is a pretty wierd PC to try and get painkillers.
Osteoporosis was my first bet (but you don't know this patient's age) followed by multiple myeloma.
One person's scientific process is another's checklist.
When I go to see an opera, I don't mind if the soprano shows off her musical talents. That's what I'm paying for. And when I go to see a doctor, I sure as hell hope he or she will show off his or her medical knowledge. That's what I'm paying for. Does it hurt your feelings that people don't want to pay you for your knowledge? Does it hurt your feelings that people don't pay to hear your Aida?
Tough.
Well John, you missed one off your list of differentials. Awoke with foot pain, no history of trauma.
The patient had plantar fasciitis.
Sorry I didn't provide a full history and exam - I didn't realise I was going to be assessed or critiqued.
I was commenting on the propensity of patients to seek attention before trying any self-care measures.
Now, if you're in the mood for some more facilitation of learning, I saw a chap with a funny rash I wouldn't mind your opinion on.
This post has been removed by the author.
Oh and I'll ignore the snide one about washing bedpans. I'd expect better from you.
'It is the sort of clinical problem I would discuss with a fellow doctor whilst fatman is in the sluice washing a bedpan, which is what he is trained to do.'
Why do you have to add that kind of inflammatory comment at the end of such a well-illustrated argument? It diminishes the effect of strong point you were getting across and is unnecessary.
Otherwise, an interesting post.
Regards,
Bluebeard
Whilst I can't comment about the medical aspects of the case I am slightly confused about why this would be classified as an emergency, shouldn't she have gone to her GPs instead?
As Dr Crippen rightly points out (see recent post on Libetarian health policy) 'no country can afford to provide the full range of modern health care'.
Yet on the basis of a painful foot he advocates a full panoply of medical investigations, admittedly stopping short of MRI scan.
Whats wrong with a brief trial of rest, elevation and an NSAID (assuming there are no contraindications) then review in 2-3 days ?
No wonder so many patients feel disgruntled when their sore foot is not afforded similar extensive medical investigtions just a few hours after symptoms have developed.
FLMN, given his years of experience, would pick up gout or cellulitis at 10 paces - the other more serious causes (malignancy, and so on) would be accompanied by other symptoms - obviously he did not think an immediate dose of radiation was mandated.
Ferret, I await your seminal paper on why NPs are crap - but why has there been such a long delay in publishing it ?
Hi Bluebeard
Why do I make inflammatory remarks? To let off steam, that's why. That is what this blog is for. To vent the increasing frustrations I feel with the inadequacies of the NHS and, most of all, the dumbing down of the service.
Two tier medicine approacheth.
Front line HCPs for those wanting their healthcare freebie, and doctors for those able to pay.
I hate that. Hate it.
John
Well John, you missed one off your list of differentials. Awoke with foot pain, no history of trauma.
The patient had plantar fasciitis.
Sorry I didn't provide a full history and exam - I didn't realise I was going to be assessed or critiqued.
I was commenting on the propensity of patients to seek attention before trying any self-care measures.
Now, if you're in the mood for some more facilitation of learning, I saw a chap with a funny rash I wouldn't mind your opinion on.
++++++
Oh, I missed lots of things off. I was just spouting spur of the moment stuff. So, it was plantar fasciitis. Far from a classic history. Plantar fasciitis pain usually eases on rest, so would be unlikely to wake someone up, which is what you said. It is often bad first thing in the morning when you jump out of bed, or walk up stairs.
So a bit odd.
Advice on a rash? Can't do that without seeing it.
Glad you enjoyed all the hyperbole, which seems to be necessary to convey the message about the new two tier health service.
LOVED the Hillary picture by the way
John
AE charge nurse,
I never said all NPs are crap, I just love the way that people arguing for the dumbing down misquote the arguments against them time and time again, largely because they have nothing else better in their locker,
I am saying you get what you pay for, if people are less educated and less trained they will provide a less good service,
there are no papers proving that more experienced consultants are better than more junior consultants, doesn't mean it's not true,
likewise there are no papers saying that senior SHOs are better than junior SHOs, and on and on
NPs are used in some roles where their education and training leaves them well out of their depth relative to their medically trained counterparts,
if you don't like the heat in the kitchen, then get out,
and come back when you can argue properly without completely misquoting the opposing argument
fat lazy male nurse - if you're going to blog, expect to be critiqued and assessed by other bloggers. Suck it up.
And I agree with Anonymous - there are an awful lot of these 'I hate patients' style blogs about. Makes me sad and disappointed in my fellow healthcare professionals
"doctors for those able to pay" and, of course, for our Lords and Masters, who won't even pay. Simple thought: many of the readers of this blog work in hospitals. Does your Chief Executive get non-doctor diagnosis when he's a bit below the weather?
Thanks Ferret - I am not arguing for 'dumbing down', as you put it, I am just curious as to why there are no published papers highlighting NP deficiencies if clinical standards are anywhere near as dire as you (and others) have repeadedly suggested.
In fact, the research evidence, despite certain weaknesses, tends to demonstrate the exact opposite, i.e. patient satisfaction and acceptable levels of safety (whenever NPs are compared to junior docs).
You are also wrong to claim that NPs are 'out of their depth' especially in certain spheres such as minor injuries - the fact is ENPs in A&E, for example, see far more wounds and fractures (when they have been around for a bit) than FY2s.
Ottawa ankle rules are always a good first step in deciding fracture vs sprain.
FLMN may end up being a great HCP, he may even be up to the standard of the role he is in.
However people are seeing more and more "specialist" nurses who are not fit for purpose.
I see some great nurses in various depts who i would refer to for advice in an instant. I also see nurses training for independendt practice in clinics in hospital who are frankly unsafe.
This is where the vitriol comes from. When a "renal nurse practitioner" (trainee) is unable to do a decent abdo exam (hey it may -jusy may- not be a renal problem!) thats not safe (and watching her she passed an abdo exam i would have failed on in finals). First hand experience means i worry about the future with lowered standards.
a&e nurse.
The problem is it could be seriously career damaging for anyone to publish such material.
I would say there is a lot invested in making this new system work (well work in the way they want).
Several people have been shelved in recent years for speaking out about hospital problems. I think going down that road would lead to a problem for the doctors that did it (if it were found to be true).
"It is the sort of clinical problem I would discuss with a fellow doctor whilst fatman is in the sluice washing a bedpan, which is what he is trained to do.'
Why do you have to add that kind of inflammatory comment at the end of such a well-illustrated argument? It diminishes the effect of strong point you were getting across and is unnecessary.
Otherwise, an interesting post.
Regards,
Bluebeard"
My thoughts exactly
AECN,
NPs are out of their depth when practicing gen med unsupervised in WICs!
I'm a fifty year old male who awoke five years ago with back pain so bad I could scarcely breathe. It took one doctor to shoot me full of painkiller and order an x-ray. Took another doctor to give me an MRI and notice three bone fractures. Took a aide to do a bone scan and diagnosis osteoporosis. Took two doctors in a different state to do a marrow biopsy and diagnose the underlying disease.
Moral of the story: Keep pushing for answers. And shed a tear for my insurance company.
I wonder if this is a go-to response of all HCPs - doctors, nurses etc that when a patient presents wanting a specific course of treatment or test the doc/nurse will instinctively be less inclined to grant it?
Had the foot-pain lady not asked for an X-ray would FLMN been a bit more magnanimous? Was FLMN angry at someone telling him how to do his job?*
I think FLMN needs a big tall glass of cool-down juice.
*Yes, yes, I know Dr. C also gets frustrated at the Daily Wail/website print-out waving crowd as well, but he is somewhat less confrontational when he talks about them. Although IMHO this post steers a bit close to an ad hom. attack...
Thought you may be interested in reading this 2008 guidance from the Royal College of Nurses http://www.wipp.nhs.uk/uploads/rcn_anp_guidance_document_2008.pdf
about the role of the advanced nurse pratitioner. Page 7 discusses the concern about 'the plethora of job titles that do not help the public to understand the level of care that they can expect. There are nurses who hold job titles that imply an advanced level of knowledge and competence but who do not hold such knowledge and competence. In addition, their practice may not be subject to the scrutiny of another professional as they often act as independent practitioners.' it goes on. I'm possibly reading this paper wrongly, I hope so, but the impression I get is that the Advanced Practitioner status is at present unregulated. Am I wrong?
While I generally agree with Dr Crippen's views on nurse practitioners, I have to take exception to most of the rubbish in this post. No matter which healthcare professional this patient presented to, they would be triage category 4, made to wait for a long time at the back of the queue, and sent home with a suggestion to buy some paracetamol. (In the absence of obvious gout/cellulitis/other symptoms) I can't imagine anyone from NP to SHO to ED Cons being very interested in non traumatic foot pain, with the ultimate indicator of non serious physical pathology, not having taken simple analgesia. Some would x-ray her foot, but only to expedite her removal from the department. If she presented after a couple of days to her GP however, that might be different..
I am just curious as to why there are no published papers highlighting NP deficiencies if clinical standards are anywhere near as dire as you (and others) have repeadedly suggested.
There are a lot of people with a lot invested in the whole business of nurse practitioners. Plus, journals tend more to publish research with positive outcomes. Plus, satisfaction surveys are pretty useless as they don't adequately capture the real picture of a service - for that, you're better off looking at complaints.
It could be plantar faciitis and if its caused by long walks in unsuitable shoes she might have developed spurs.
I used to work in A&E - it's a pretty hard place to work. Plenty of people use the service inappropriately and sometimes I used to have to work so hard that I would keep reminding myself that patient weren't getting sick simply to annoy me.
However these people are real people with real concerns. I find the Fat Nurse's approach, where patients are chastised for perceived stupidity without any discussion of why such behaviour might have taken place disagreeable. It doesn't matter if this lady had nothing at all wrong with her. She was concerned and required at least sympathy and reassurance.
And is it really necessary to be so rude? We may all use this language down the pub, but on the written page it is ugly and no substitute for wit.
About patient surveys. In my local GP surgery the questionaire designed to gauge satisfaction in the service is handed out on a clipboard, pencil attached. Obviously the surgery received a 100% satisfactory rating because no-one dared risk upsetting the psychopaths who serve as receptionists.
frontier psychiatrist - you haven't read Dr Rant have you ?
When my 11 month old daughter stopped crawling and refused to take any weight on her left hand, I took her to A&E and we saw a doctor who tried to get her to crawl to see where the pain was but she just sat on the floor and smiled at him so he said, 'I don't thnk anything is wrong, but I will have her x-rayed to put your mind at rest.' Greenstick fracture of both lower arm bones at elbow. Apology from doctor, arm in plaster. Two years later, I fell down stairs, pain in arm, went to A&E,saw an NP who said 'I don't think anything is wrong, take off that sling, do these exercises.' Two weeks later after a lot more pain, went back to A&E, saw a doctor who ordered an x-ray. Fracture at elbow joint. Slig back on.
Doctors 10 points, NP nul points
To Bessie T - the receptionists in my GP's surgery are all lovely ladies who do their best to fit you in even when the doctors' lists are already full. Their satisfaction surveys are not handed back directly, you get an envelope and you can post them back at your leisure.
There are many many examples of this. Much of it anecdotal as there are few systematic surveys.
Much of the hyperbole against the introduction of practitioners replacing traditional doctor roles is because of a perceived lack of awareness that it is becoming endemic. There do not appear to be any checks or balances in place to monitor and evaluate these new non-doctor services.
We are increasingly seeing letters from practitioners rather than the surgeon/physician we have referred to (e.g. ophthalmology). In the last four cases I have been involved in, I have had to re-refer for a proper opinion.
It is becoming a two-tier service without anyone realising it. If the hyperbole becomes extreme it is because this problem is going to get worse.
COI: I work in a specialised tertiary/quaternary referral service so am somewhat protected from all of this. It also makes us appreciate a generalist all-round opinion, rather than a tickbox ("glaucoma assessment")
I used to be a nurse (male) and being slightly plump and definately a lazy person who just does a lot of things (among them working in a number of Emergency Departments) - I must say that I object to some prat using my identity. This churl is typical of the people I gave up nursing to avoid. Cynical is not such an issue, but stupid, slack and cynical is unforgiable. Annoying people can have real problems and waking up with pain severe enough to go to the ED. Competent people bother to find out what is going on before passing judgemnt. If this is an advanced practitioner's work I can't imagine how bad the ordinary ones are.
Kevin
A couple of commentators here suggest that researchers would be reluctant to undertake, or publish data portraying NPs in an unfavourable light, because;
'there are a lot of people with a lot invested in the whole business of nurse practitioners'.
And,
'I think going down that road would lead to a problem for the doctors that did it (if it were found to be true)'.
Perhaps I'm wrong but doesn't this attitude border on paranoia ?
I have often pointed out that nurse quacks have been plying their dodgy trade for well over a DECADE (in the UK) - so why isn't there one shred of evidence in the literature (AFAIK) corroborating the kind of anecdotes we hear time and again from the anxious quack detractors ?
Personally, I do not buy the reasons cited above - the simple fact is quacks are able to deal with a patient who has developed a sore foot, for example, although I accept that certain doctors object (in principle) to the entire quack concept.
Hi! Well here you go then! I am "ALICE"!
I am totally and utterly disgusted with this nonsense as I do not expect to present myself for medical care and find myself being discussed on a www blog where people are rude and breech confidentiality !
Alice was a nurse! Alice knew she was ill and needed help. Alice is not stupid and neither was the nurse who s qualified to care for me and qualified to do a lot more than the insulting so say dr implied.
Alice is going to take action to get the information removed from a blog which is not there to discuss confidential consultations with the world.
Alice is a retired nurse who knows you cannot do this and Alice is not going to tolerate being discussed.
Oh and the foot is agony...ok?
Alice....
Alice....
Who the f*** is Alice!
ie. Your confidentiality has not been breached, April fool.
I am Alice and so is my wife.
(No really my wife is called Alice actually)
{whistle}...always look on the bright side of life....{de dum de dum de dum}
Frontier psychiatrist mentioned the need for rudeness. Quite. I refer you to the comment about nurses being trained to deal with bedpans.
Bravo, Dr Crippen. Ten house points for continuing to perpetuate the myth that all we nurses are good for is cleaning up bodily fluids and pushing a notes trolley on the ward round.
I have never seen or had a nurse push the trolley on ward rounds...there are not enough nurses where i am to have one with us on rounds.
As a student i pushed the trolley.. it made me feel special
;)
Hey Dr Crippen just like too express a few sentiments as a hard working nurse who has taken time off from emptying bedpans and wiping arses. Fuck you you patronising, sanctimonious twat face. Doctor's like you are part of the reason that the NHS is dying on its arse why dont you take your yourself, your massively inflated ego and your obviously tiny male member and go and miss diagnose some more patients whilst complaining that the present bunch of medical student's don't work as hard as you had too/arn't as good as you were and that nurse's just dont do as they are told anymore. Come onto my ward with an attitude like this dickface and see how long you'd last you pissant
You made a good point, although some commentators seem to have missed the wood for the trees a bit.Your life is so wonderful,Reading your article is a kind of enjoyment.Thank you.
Tactical Flashlights
r c helicopter
video game
I'm an ICU nurse and I can tell you that (hyperbole or not) I do much more than empty bedpans. Those remarks do sting a bit.
Anyway, I admit I haven't reviewed the literature very thouroughly on this topic, but the NP that rounds with our Intensivist service does make me a bit nervous sometimes. He's a new grad and I've seen him miss some things on our medically complex patients.
The NP is a role that society originally devised to fill the spaces where physicians were not willing or able to practice. This has changed radically to the point that NPs are acting as anything from rounding RNs to residents to MDs.
Either training for NPs should be more advanced or the role should be more narrowly defined.
希望大家都會非常非常幸福~
「朵朵小語‧優美的眷戀在這個世界上,最重要的一件事,就是好好愛自己。好好愛自己,你的眼睛才能看見天空的美麗,耳朵才能聽見山水的清音。好好愛自己,你才能體會所有美好的東西,所有的文字與音符才能像清泉一樣注入你的心靈。好好愛自己,你才有愛人的能力,也才有讓別人愛上你的魅力。而愛自己的第一步,就是切斷讓自己覺得黏膩的過去,以無沾無滯的輕快心情,大步走向前去。愛自己的第二步,則是隨時保持孩子般的好奇,願意接受未知的指引;也隨時可以拋卻不再需要的行囊,一路雲淡風輕。親愛的,你是天地之間獨一無二的旅人,在陽光與月光的交替之中瀟灑獨行.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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