The Crippen Diaries - 2008 : April (1)
What do you want to do when you grow up...April 2008 (1)
A rather surely teenage boy, David, came in for the first appointment of the day. He was in school uniform and had a mate with him. David is 14. I asked him what the problem was, and he said, “I’ve been getting gut pains for a month and my mum said I should get down the doctor.”
Mum was not with him. David said “she can’t come with me, she has to go to work.” This is a one parent family. David has an older brother, who I rarely seen. Dad is long gone, and is never mentioned. Gut pains for a month in 14 year old are unlikely to be anything serious, but David needed examining, including a check to make sure his testes were down, and possibly (unlikely) even a rectal examination. This happens more and more commonly. Should one insist on a parent being present when seeing a 14 year old? I think so. So I asked him to make an appointment to come back with his mother. I am not happy examining children without a parent present. Obviously one would in an emergency, and then there is the whole minefield of contraception and abortion in which the normal law is stood on its head whilst we consider Gillick competence and Fraser guidelines and so on.
He was very cross. “She is too busy” he said. I still made him an appointment to come at 7.45 am the next day to see his own doctor. He left looking very grumpy. I fear I am old fashioned on this. I emailed all my partners and asked them what they are doing. The younger ones, particularly the females, are fairly relaxed and do not usually insist on a parent being present provided they are satisfied that the child understands what is going on. The older partners take my view. Oh! Dear, another age thing. Tunbridge Wells and letters to the Telegraph loom on the horizon.
When my children were 14, I would have been unhappy if a doctor had seen one of them and carried out an examination in my absence. Perhaps I am old fashioned.
David came the next day and saw my partner. Mum came too. It turned out that David had made the original appointment without telling his mother. Not because he is a difficult boy. On the contrary. He genuinely was trying to help his mother. In fact, he had not told her about the abdominal pains as he did not want to worry her. Mum was supportive of him, but said she was glad that she had been involved. And, as expected, nothing seriously wrong. Testes both down. Probably constipation.
No obvious rights or wrongs here. A common problem for GPs and a difficult one.
++++++++++
The monthly practice meeting.
A particularly depressing one. Our most experienced practice nurse, who ran a diabetic clinic and a COPD clinic retired six weeks ago. We have advertised. We pay an above average salary. We have had no suitable applicants. Actually, we have had no applicants at all. It is leaving a big hole.
The practice manager submitted our proposals to the PCT for the new Gordon Brown approved longer opening hours. We have only had to make minor adjustments to meet all the criteria but we await the stamp of approval. The PCT cannot give that as they have still had no guidance from the government as to what is or is not acceptable. So no changes have been made. The government will still claim that the “improved service” is up and working and the press have moved onto other issues. Entirely typical of the way the NHS works
The practice manager has now sorted out the final bits of the QoF data. She monitors the smoking habits of our very elderly patients. She has phoned round all the old peoples’ homes. Of our 648 patients in such homes there are only two smokers. It is all recorded on the computer and in due course we will claim several thousand pounds from the taxpayer. What a waste of our time and your money. But, if we do not collect the data, we will be told off by the PCT. If we do collect it, and get paid, we will be told of by the Taxpayers’ Alliance. What do you do?
A circular has arrived from Tesco. They are starting an intensive medical screening programme. They have enclosed their guidelines for “safe” levels of cholesterol, blood sugar, blood pressure, weight, BMI and waist circumference. Some of their guide lines are wrong. They have taken the aggressive American blood sugar levels and propose to tell people who have a fasting blood sugar over 5.6 that they have a serious medical problem. The normal UK level is 6.0. That will medicalise another cohort of the population who previously thought they were well. There is no room for discretion in supermarket medicine. And when I sneak in for my annual tube of self-prescribed (mea culpa) Betnovate I do not want a shop assistant in the pharmacy department to jump on me to measure my waist, and BP and so on. Leave me alone. I shall take my business to Sainsbury. But I daresay they will be at it soon too. The government will not rest until every member of the population has been found to have some sort of potential illness. The drug companies must be loving this.
Finally, we have to start thinking as a practice about the government’s latest spin doctoring. It is not only supermarkets who are starting unnecessary screening programmes. Now we are to be compelled (bribed) to screen the whole practice population between the ages of 40 and 70 for risk factors for strokes. I still refuse to drop the final ‘s’ and talk about “stroke”. When and why did this odd linguistic affectation start? Mostly we already have the data on patients in the older part of the age group. Not so much the younger ones. What degree of compulsion is there going to be? Are we going to have to phone fit 42 year old men and women at work and tell them to come in to be assessed? What a waste of money this is. As always, there will be a flood of fit, fussy middle-class neurotics coming in to be screened, thus wasting many hours of precious nursing time. Meanwhile, the people who are really at risk, the overweight boozers and so on, will not come near us. Why cannot the government take advice on screening from the profession? For example, for years now we have been begging them to introduce a screening programme for triple As (abdominal aortic aneurysms) - a common, life threatening and curable medical problem. They have prevaricated and delayed. It will happen, and when it does, the government will claim it was their initiative and they are taking the initiative because we have not.
What a nightmare this job is becoming.
Labels: Fraser guidelines, gillick competence, screening, strokes









31 Comments:
interesting that it is the younger Drs in your practice who are more relaxed about examining a child without a parent, we are the opposite, us oldies say "sure, no problem", the youngsters want a parent.
Re screening for strokes, does anyone think that there is anyone left who doesn't know that they shouldn't smoke and should exercise more? I don't care how deprived, poor or even thick, they know, I know I should exercise more and we all will lead healthier lives when and if we decide to, not when coralled and offered options which don't really exist
" I still refuse to drop the final ‘s’ and talk about “stroke”.
I know I should have some witty, pithy, incisive comment 'bout minors autonomy in health care, or about content of the red book (erm, or whatever it is now) and IOS fee/QoF whatnots, but all I leap upon is the joyous knowledge that I am not alone in my linguistic foibles :-)
I though that screening for the 3A's had already been announced fairly recently?
The government "announces" all sorts of things.
It has "announced" that the new GP extra hours started today.
Maybe it was an April fool
John
Dr C
Do you think the point will come when it will be economic for unemployed staff grade doctors to staff currently nurse-led clinics like your diabetes and COPD ones?
Mrs Dr Aust, after a dozen yrs of good old 1 in 5 on-call hospital general medicine and various specialty stints, is currently a trust grade something earning approx. £ 40 K pa pro rata.
Would be interested to know if that is noticeably more than an experienced practise nurse, just in case she is minded to re-train.
Dr Aust
Fascinating.
I shall check that out
john
Dr Aust
Fascinating.
I shall check that out
john
Interesting the thing we never consider!!
Could you not have had a nurse in with you as you examined the lad??
Would this have been an undue drain on resources or was it strictly so that his parent would be in the loop as it were?
Where would the parent be during the examination? Actually overseeing it or just in the room with a curtain separating her from the examination? I would have thought no 14 year old would have really wanted their mother present during a check to see if their testes were down or a rectal exam?
Interesting the thing we never consider!!
Could you not have had a nurse in with you as you examined the lad??
Would this have been an undue drain on resources or was it strictly so that his parent would be in the loop as it were?
Tuesday, April 01, 2008 4:27:00 PM
+++
I think it is keeping the parents in the loop. AND, it has to be said, sending unaccompanied minors to the doctor can occasionally be a pointer towards neglect.
John
Dr C - you're slacking - this from the BBC website 7 January 2008:
"In his speech, Mr Brown said: "The next stage is offering men over 65 a simple ultrasound test to detect early abdominal aortic aneurysm... the weakening of the main artery from heart to abdomen which kills over 3,000 men a year - and this will eventually save more than 1,600 lives each year." "
Link to story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7174340.stm
Dr C - you're slacking - this from the BBC website 7 January 2008:
"In his speech, Mr Brown said: "The next stage is offering men over 65 a simple ultrasound test to detect early abdominal aortic aneurysm... the weakening of the main artery from heart to abdomen which kills over 3,000 men a year - and this will eventually save more than 1,600 lives each year." "
Link to story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7174340.stm
Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:11:00 PM
+++++
Yes I know.
We have been telling the bastards about this for years.
Please translate "and the next stage is..." because it has not happened yet
JOhn
John
It occurs to me that if the government says that we are to screen all these healthy people, the only possible reason would be to create demand for the appointment slots that will become available until 8p.m.
I wonder of there will be the same degree of enthusiasm when the patients are told to return in the morning for the blood test? or will the blood labs be doing routine cholesterols at 9p.m., having collected the samples from the GP surgeries at 8p.m?
We are all doomed
Our eldest daughter (15) wouldn't dream of seeing a doctor no matter what sex or age they were without being accompanied. She will go in with either her mum or dad.
No-one will be forced to have these health assessments. I personally think it's a total waste of time and won't be taking up the invitation.
Dr.C,
I don't see why you could not have examined the boy without his mum there. I wouldn't have wanted my mum with me at 14!
Gillick competence?
"What a nightmare this job is becoming."
Go do something else then!!!
As Ben and Jerry (as in ice-cream) from Vermont say: "If it ain't fun don't do it!"
I'm actually really surprised that you won't see teenagers on their own. My parents stopped coming to the doctor's with me when I was about 13. As a teenager I would have been far too embarassed to have them with me and if I thought they had to come along I probs wouldn't have gone at all. It isn't that I had a bad relationship with them but I would not have felt comfortable talking about certain medical probs with them as a teenager. I think young people in particular have a right to privacy and confidentiality. Are you not worried that you might be discouraging teens from getting problems checked out?
And then of course there is the issue of confidentiality! When you have seen the Dr plus or minus your parent/s you find the info on a www blog for all to read about! How much fun is that?!
Which blog can we write about GP's on? umm I wonder if I can do a search on google blogs! Bound to be one out there somewhere I presume!
Whole hearteldy agree re if you don't like it...get out! But then you know that anyway dont you!
I think there's a difference between consulting a young teenager without their parent present and carrying out a PR and testicular exam without their parent being present.
Even with Gillick competency I'm sure there's a bit where you try and convince the patient that the parent's should be involved.
anonymous said...
"What a nightmare this job is becoming."
Go do something else then!!!
As Ben and Jerry (as in ice-cream) from Vermont say: "If it ain't fun don't do it!"
Tuesday, April 01, 2008 7:26:00 PM
+++++
I partially have already. But, when I am left alone to do the job for which I trained, I still enjoy it. I hope that soon Gordon Brown will go away and then things will improve
John
teenage boy aged 13 and 3/4 said...
And then of course there is the issue of confidentiality! When you have seen the Dr plus or minus your parent/s you find the info on a www blog for all to read about! How much fun is that?!
Which blog can we write about GP's on? umm I wonder if I can do a search on google blogs! Bound to be one out there somewhere I presume!
Whole hearteldy agree re if you don't like it...get out! But then you know that anyway dont you!
Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:49:00 PM
+++++++
Well, he/she can search all they like, but the won't find anything. David does not exist. The incident is fictionalised but loosely based on something that happend last year to one of my partners.
It is a common problem. We just happened to be talking about it the other day over coffee so I wrote it up to see what others felt about the issue and the principle behind it.
And if you want to write about GPs, start a blog and do so. It's a free world.
Or you could go to the NHS sucks site and vent your spleen there.
John
Dr C
'The government will not rest until every member of the population has been found to have some sort of potential illness. The drug companies must be loving this.'
I suspect the Government is run by Big Business. Out of all the thousands of ideas the PM could have to save lives, why say screen over 40s and then by implication, test and treat- money for medicaland drug companies.
If the wanted to save lives, he would ban smoking for all pregnant women and parents of young children, introduce compulsory healthy eating classes for all school children and daily one hour of physical exercise for all school children. Of course it would need more money for teachers and sports equipment, but this would be a better investment than more money for decrepit old people such as myself.
He could ask for salt and sugar in food to be drastiically cut.
Which Public Health doctor is advising the PM on his strategy? We want his name.
Who asked for these screening tests to be introduced? Was it the Doctors or the Nurse Practitioners?;)
Hi Dr Aust, if you are still there:
Our practice nurse was on:
High G grade £17.08 per hour
Annual salary £33,306.00
John
It does worry me that, as an ex-lawyer, you don't seem to understand even basic bits of law regarding children and medical treatment....
What bits of the law?
A child can consent to treatment if competent but not refuse it.
There is no part of the law that requires you to treat a child (under 16) without a parent.
Maybe you should read a bit of the law so you don't fall foul of it student nurse.
student nurse said...
It does worry me that, as an ex-lawyer, you don't seem to understand even basic bits of law regarding children and medical treatment....
Wednesday, April 02, 2008 12:20:00 PM
++++++
That is an irritatingly pompous, snotty little remark. Would you kindly justify it, with particular reference to the "basic bits of law" to which you refer, and then integrate it into the complex medical ethics of family doctors treating family members?
You are obviously a nurse-specialist in training. If you think that the issues surrounding the law pertaining to children consenting to medical treatment in the absence of parents are simple, or clear, or basic, then...well, back to emptying bedpans for you where you can't do any damage.
John
Hi Dr C.
NPs are still cheaper than staff grade doctors - though not by all that much.
Mrs Dr Aust (MRCP), who "logged" 7 yrs as an SHO (5 in mixed medical specialties/general medicine), and 2 yrs as a med reg, earns £ 167 (before tax) per day worked.. contracted as 7 hrs a day in two 3.5 hr sessions, but usually more like 8 hrs - she routinely has to do the paperwork "on her own dime", the diary being filled with patients for every minute of officially contracted time.
This works out as £ 23.84 per contracted hr, or £ 20.86 per hr worked.
..compare the £ 17.08 for your practise nurse.
BTW, Mrs Dr A, who used to do COPD and diabetes clinics as an SHO, asked me to ask how long the NP got to see each patient.
As a general comment to wind you up, Dr C, while staff grade docs like Mrs Dr A are still more expensive than an experienced NP, they would presumably be notably cheaper than salaried GPs, even newly-qualified relatively inexperienced ones.
In fact, wasn't this one of the arguments wafting around M'Lord Darzi and his polyclinics? - I had the impression it had been implied somewhere that surplus hospital worker-droid doctors like Mrs Dr A might be bussed in to staff the polyclinics, thus giving people the "full Doctor experience" while undercutting GP prices.
With the combination of record numbers graduating from UK med schools, masses of 3-4+ yrs post-graduation doctors (some, like Mrs Dr A, with many more yrs in) binned off by MTAS, and the bottlenecks to get into GP training, you can see how this might begin to look like a "market solution" in certain quarters.
anonymous said...
"What a nightmare this job is becoming."
Go do something else then!!!
As Ben and Jerry (as in ice-cream) from Vermont say: "If it ain't fun don't do it!"
Tuesday, April 01, 2008 7:26:00 PM
+++++
I partially have already. But, when I am left alone to do the job for which I trained, I still enjoy it. I hope that soon Gordon Brown will go away and then things will improve
John
********
If this blog is what you define as doing something else - I'd just make the point that this probably perpetuates your misery! ;-)
If this blog is what you define as doing something else - I'd just make the point that this probably perpetuates your misery! ;-)
+++++++
this blog is not "the something else"
but i do use the blog, as regular readers will be only too away, as my own personal pressure valve.
does writing about it all the time perpetuate the misery? No it does not. BUT I think it may aggravate it a bit. And that is something I think about a lot. Believe it or not, I still enjoy the job; I have a good relationship with my patients. I hope they value my input. I think they do. The peripheral crap drags me down, and being slagged off in the media all the time for being overpaid, lazy, unavailable and incompetent drags me down too. And I get fed up of being told that NPs can do my job better than I can do it.
Poor old me!
I have insight!
Interesting question, though. How many of the work bloggers are blogging because they are happy with their jobs?
John
Not many, I would have said, John - at least not of the over-40s...!
I'm with you that in a sense blogging is a way of trying to separate the reasons why one does the job, and the bits of it one enjoys, from the add-on bollocks.
As an academic I still enjoy working on research projects, and training PhD students, and working out how to solve technical research problems, and I really do quite enjoy teaching undegraduate students most of the time. Most of them seems to appreciate it, just about, most of the time. And above all, I treasure the idea that I am sort of paid to read about interesting stuff, like new bits of science and medicine, or even a textbook when I have to teach something I haven't taught before.
But.... I hate: endless chasing after research money, endless networking to butter up the people who decide who gets the money, endless "positioning" to try and look like whatever research the funders say is to be funded this year, endless stupid meetings to "close the audit trail" for our documentation that shows we have a procedure to "validate" everything in teaching, endless writing out of lists of "course learning objectives", filling in of internal "research evaluation" audits, endless meetings to be told about our new "eLearning business strategy", continually being characterised in the popular press as "batty dons" or "not like having a real job" etc etc.
So agreed - safety valve, semi-recreation, and "separational reflection tool".
John... the same laws which you state apply to teenagers seeking abortions apply to teenagers seeking any other aspect of healthcare. That law is Gillick Competence, which states that if the child is able to understand the risks and benefits of the proposed treatment and make a decision, then they are able to give consent.
Whilst you may think it a good idea to have a parent involved, it is not a requirement, and neither is it a particularly good idea in cases where such an intimate examination is obviously going to be required.
How would you feel if you were that teenager, having to undress and be intimately examined infront of your parents?
Even if it isn't (as far as you are concerned) an intimate matter, would you not agree that children have a right to privacy and confidentiality as much as every other patient does? You would not dream of revealing even apparently benign information about an adult to their family (probably not even the fact that they had seen you), why should that be different for a child?
The judgements handed down in the Gillick case by the House of Lords explained this viewpoint far more eloquently than I ever could (you might want to look them up), but the basic principle is that adolescence is a time where maturity and responsibility increase, and thus the necessity for parental involvement decreases. Their Lordships were of the opinion that parental rights exist only so far as is necessary in order to protect the child who is unable to excercise those rights for themselves. Like it or not, that's the law.
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