Thursday, June 12, 2008

"Choose and Book", the barrister and the cowpat


We have a good ENT department locally. I send nearly all my ENT referrals to David, who is one of the older consultants. I have grown up with him, I suppose. He took out my daughter’s tonsils. I am very choosy about who operates on my children. I trust him. "Doctor, would you let this surgeon operate on your children?" you should ask. Make sure your doctor answers without hesitation.

A few weeks ago, I suggested to Mary that I should refer her to David to sort out her problems with obstructive nasal polyps. I’ve known Mary for twenty years. When I first met her she was in remission from a childhood leukaemia. She has been in remission ever since and so she is deemed to be cured. It still concentrates the mind, and she comes to see me from time to time about this that and the other. She is a successful criminal barrister. I expect she will take silk in a few years time, if silk is still there to be taken. It may not be because the government thinks that silks are elitist and expensive. They are right. Silks are an elite group of highly intelligent successful lawyers who can command high fees. Not a CPS quacktitioner amonst them. Like most busy people, Mary is well organised and so always manages to book an appointment to see me. We usually chat about working for the government. She has a bitch about the Crown Prosecution Service, and I have a bitch about health care professionals taking over the world and then we both have a bitch about government bureaucracy.

I suggested a “named consultant only” referral to David, but she was keen to try “Choose and Book”. She did not want to get an appointment when she was scheduled to be in court. And that’s what it’s all about, isn’t it? Choice. Choice and convenience. In the old days, I would have written a short letter to David. His secretary would have sent her an appointment and she would have been seen but not, it has to be said, on a day of her choosing. We can do better than that now. And the government is so keen to get Choose and Book working that it is now paying the practice £5 for every patient we refer under the Choose and Book system. Ker..ching. So I wrote my usual “Dear Comrade” letter to the Choose and Book Commissar knowing at least that Mary was a highly intelligent professional and would know how to navigate “the system”.

I received the following letter from her today:



I begin to understand the hidden agenda of Choose and Book. Our monthly audit of referrals under the system shows that on average 25% of patients do not make an appointment. We have to follow them all up as they might have something serious. A few have changed their mind but most of them, particularly the elderly patients, have been defeated by the system. Think of the money that saves. And what, in context, is a Customer Service Agent? A full time job with a pension for sure. But what exactly does the agent do all day?

The government is not resting on its laurels. So impressed are they by Choose and Book that they have introduced an even more refined hospital system called "Clinically Prioritise and Treat". In the old days, when I referred a patient to David, I would classify the referral as "routine", "soon" or "urgent". David always read the referral letters himself and would assign an appointment priority of "routine", "soon" or "urgent" on the basis of the information I had sent him. He rarely changed the priority I had given but, if he did, it was most usually upgrading a "soon" to an "urgent".  He did  this prioritisation each week. It only took a few minutes, and then his secretary sent out the appointments. He did not have a protocol. He did not have a "toolkit". The government thought this was terribly inefficient. They sacked his secretary, with whom he had been working for years, and instead there is a departmental typist/telephonist. Most of David's corresspondance is now typed in New Delhi. It's cheaper. Meanwhile, the NHS Institute for Innovation and Improvement (no, really) has introduced the "Clinically Prioritise and Treat" protocols and toolkits.This "system" has an acronym, CPAT and is thus known as COWPAT. Who thinks up these acronyms? Did Mrs Whitehouse really propose to call her first organisation the "Clean up national TV" campaign?


CPaT is a very simple approach, supported by a toolkit that does three things:
  1. Provides detailed information that enables trusts to understand how their waiting lists are managed
  2. Offers techniques to promote shared understanding by clinicians, managers and administrative staff
  3. Identifies ways of improving the management of waiting lists by introducing fairer, more systematic processes for the selection of patients, helping to reduce overall waiting times
This means that patients can be seen in accordance with their clinical priority and also provides a sound basis for the introduction of consistent booking systems.

CPaT is based on two principles:
  • That the proportion of priority patients a clinician sees has a direct impact on the waiting time for all other patients. The higher the proportion of priority patients, the longer routine patients will have to wait for treatment
  • Patients categorised as routine are not always seen in waiting time order. Some patients wait longer for treatment as a result of displacement by ‘queue jumping’. If routine patients are seen broadly in turn, the maximum waiting time for all patients will fall
You can use CPaT to measure whether patients are being seen in chronological order by looking at variation in waiting time between the original decision to admit (ODTA) and the date of admission for treatment. Where routine patients are not seen in waiting time order, the variation is greater. You can then use the CPaT toolkit to promote discussion pinpointing the cause of variation in waiting times at trust, site, speciality, sub-speciality and procedure level. Once you have identified these causes, CPaT suggests how to address them to reduce maximum waiting times. Whilst there will always be an element of variation within the system, you should aim to keep this to a minimum.
Masochists who wish to immerse themselves in COWPAT should visit the dedicated website.   Always remember, though, what this is all about:
A Focus on the Whole Patient Journey
The efficiency of the whole patient journey is more important than the individual team's efficiencies. An outline approach of how to look at the bigger picture.

Does it work in real life? Of course it does. In Bolton, up in Lancashire, they were having problems with tummy pain. In the old days, people with tummy pain were seen in the A & E department by a doctor, who examined them and then made a diagnosis. What a dreadful system but in those days doctors did not have the benefit of "Root Cause Analysis using fishbone technique". They have just introduced it in Bolton:
What was the problem?

Following the Trust Enterprise Value Stream Analysis Event in October 2006, the Abdominal Pain Value Stream was identified as a priority. At Bolton Hospital, management of abdominal pain wasn't standardised and there was a perception that the patient journey was delayed by a lack of access to diagnostics and clinical decision making at appropriate points in the pathway. It was also believed that some admissions could be avoided and that there was a lot of rework in following up patients who were brought back for diagnostics and review. The process for clinical coding may also have been impacting on income streams and clinical data tracking. This Value Stream Analysis was conducted in February 2007.


What they did to identify the cause of the problem

A team of more than 25 staff from different departments and disciplines conducted the Value Stream Analysis. The scope included all adult patients with abdominal pain presenting as an emergency to Bolton Hospital Accident and Emergency Department or Assessment Units up to the point of discharge from hospital.

(Full analysis 
here.)


This is beyond credibility. It is beyond satire. I cannot cope much longer.

+++++++++++

A regular reader says, "For how the government now regards citizens (sorry, subjects), please see" :

The Unknown Citizen

(To JS/07/M/378 This Marble Monument Is Erected by the State)

He was found by the Bureau of Statistics to be
One against whom there was no official complaint,
And all the reports on his conduct agree
That, in the modern sense of an old-fashioned word, he was a saint,
For in everything he did he served the Greater Community.
Except for the War till the day he retired
He worked in a factory and never got fired,
But satisfied his employers, Fudge Motors Inc.
Yet he wasn't a scab or odd in his views,
For his Union reports that he paid his dues,
(Our report on his Union shows it was sound)
And our Social Psychology workers found
That he was popular with his mates and liked a drink.
The Press are convinced that he bought a paper every day
And that his reactions to advertisements were normal in every way.
Policies taken out in his name prove that he was fully insured,
And his Health-card shows he was once in hospital but left it cured.
Both Producers Research and High-Grade Living declare
He was fully sensible to the advantages of the Installment Plan
And had everything necessary to the Modern Man,
A phonograph, a radio, a car and a frigidaire.
Our researchers into Public Opinion are content
That he held the proper opinions for he time of year;
When there was peace, he was for peace; when there was war, he went.
He was married and added five children to the population,
Which our Eugenist says was the right number for a parent of his generation.
And our teachers report that he never interfered with their education.
Was he free? Was he happy? The question is absurd:
Had anything been wrong, we should certainly have heard.

W. H. Auden

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46 Comments:

Blogger Dr Snuggles said...

'At Bolton Hospital, management of abdominal pain wasn't standardised' I should bloody well hope not! A ruptured appendix should not be managed like constipation!

As for the execrable Booze and Chuck, well done for publicising yet another expensive Labour Government health policy failure, along with NHS Direct, the National Records Programme, ISTCs, PFI, and, coming to a ghost-town not very near you soon, polyclinics (12 hours access a day to a nurse with a protocol).

Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Emma said...

But... why do all these documents have to be written in gibberish that is actually painful to read?

Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:50:00 PM  
Blogger The Shrink said...

Choose and Book is, largely, a nonsense and best ignored (we don't use it in our Trust at all, relying on GP letters as you suggest or on patients referring in to open appointments). I'd argue that it's so dangerous for patient care that on clinical governance grounds alone you can't countenance its use.

Clinicians know it's a nonsense, it is unworkable (e.g. patients can choose and book an appointment to see me in clinic any day of the week they wish, at any time they wish, but if they also want me to
be there then it had better be a Tuesday morning).

Managers know it's a nonsense which can't mesh seemlessly with the capacity of a service and the clinical needs/priorities of patients and as you say it in effect a gatekeeping exercise.

Patients know it's nonsense, as your Mary has found.

Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Ed said...

One of the "top 10 requirements to make the future state a reality" (number 6, in fact) is (are?):

"Patients: right place, first time, stay there." (AND DON'T MOVE).

So there you have it - patients ARE a "requirement" for the "future state". Whatever that means.

Thursday, June 12, 2008 5:54:00 PM  
Blogger Fiona said...

Have I got Mary's letter right? She wants you to refer her again to "Choose and Book"? I admire her tenacity, but have to wonder at her intelligence.

Thursday, June 12, 2008 5:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Theresa said...

I'm fascinated by the systems the UK has in place to provide healthcare, compared to those in the US. Considering both sets, I have to conclude that bureaucracy exerts its toxic effects everywhere. I hope Mary gets her polyps seen to...eventually.

Thursday, June 12, 2008 6:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whenever I see (Notice I didn't say read) drivel like this at my workplace (Local Government) my eyes glaze over, my brain goes into hibernation and I seek a quiet corner in which to vegetate in despair.

Dave the Dog

Thursday, June 12, 2008 6:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Crippo said...

John, John, when will you EVER learn?

Fancy thinking that you can refer a patient to the surgeon who you know will do the best job for your patient. How naive. Don't you realise that we are now in a system of paralysed mediocrity, run in the main by people who are unemployable in any other walk of life?

For how the government now regards citizens (sorry, subjects), please see:

'The Unknown Citizen'

by WH Auden.

And meanwhile stop being so silly.

Thursday, June 12, 2008 7:13:00 PM  
Blogger Dr John Crippen said...

Brilliant.

I haven't read The unknown citizen since I was a teenager. I seems much more scary now.

I think I might stick it on the end of the article.


John

Thursday, June 12, 2008 7:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Crippo said...

It's been stuck prominently on my office wall for years, along with:


"Be on your guard against the ruling power, for they who exercise it draw no man near to them except for their own interests; appearing as friends when it is to their own advantage, they stand not by a man in the hour of his need."

Rabbi Gamaliel

Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Additionally, may I add that it is not that unusual to have sufficient hearing-loss that it is difficult to use the phone with someone with whom you are unfamiliar. Despite this, Choose and Book will not phone my husband to arrange an appointment on my behalf when he has been unsuccessful in trying to arrange an appointment when we are together (we both travel a lot for work). Despite repeated requests that my doctors' surgery should phone my husband rather than me if they need to let me know about something, they never do even though they are aware of my degree of hearing loss.

Individual staff are fine but they seem to be trapped in a completely inflexible system that refuses to take account of quite common exceptions that make the system unworkable.

word verification is fartplrt which seems more like a comment on the system

Sue J

Thursday, June 12, 2008 9:07:00 PM  
Anonymous XXXXXXXXX said...

"patient journe","appropriate points in the pathway" What the fuck is this shit?? Pardon my language but I am incandescent at the total shittyness of this govt.

I can't read this blog; it just makes me angry to the point where I am straining at the leash to do physical violence to these wankers.

Thursday, June 12, 2008 10:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well all I can say is Dr Crippen must have a lot of free time to keep this blog running (may be less time here and a few more sessions in clinic and we wouldn't need choose and book!)....You are also typical of many doctors who still believe pts and nurses are idiots who should be told what to do and when to do it. Move on mate. There are many of us in the NHS who appreciate the changes and have no way desire to go back to the dark Tory days of the 80's and 90's wheh it was a 2 year wait for a hip replacement and the average nurse's salary increase was a meagre 1% per year.

Thursday, June 12, 2008 10:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was referred under the choose and book scheme and it was a disaster. I could not choose and was given a phone number to contact a specific hospital directly. I rang but the person who answered said that they could not provide me with an appointment at that time but they would write to me within 7 days. I received a letter but not from the hospital but from the choose and book central office advising me that I needed to make an appointment or I would lose the opportunity. I phoned the number on the letter to be told they could not do anything and they gave me the number of the hospital that I had originally phoned. I phoned again for an appointment. i quoted the reference number which they said was of no use to them. I asked if they knew about the choose and book scheme and they said they had never heard of it but would take my details and call me back. No call back was made and 7 days later I received another letter from the central office reminding me that I had not made an appointment. Again I phoned the hospital to make an appointment and was unable to do so but I insisted (probably quite aggressively at this stage) that a manager should phone me back. I did get a call back to say that the systems did not work and that I should attend the A&E department the next day. I did so and had the usual 4 hour wait but did see a doctor who was able to cary out the necessary tests.
This was a difficult and stressful process for me and I could have given up at any point. Only my own determination. persistence and aggressive behaviour enabled me to crack this stupid system. As a retiree I do not need this stress in my life. When will this government learn that a managers job is to assist those who do the work to do it better by removing the obstacles that get in their way. It seems to me that managers in the NHS do exactly the opposite.

Thursday, June 12, 2008 10:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please don’t let it be true that there is a £5 payment just for referring a patient through choose and book!

As a clinician in secondary care, I have a budget of £6 to pay a doctor for an out patient appointment.

In an idle moment one evening, I calculated that it routinely takes over 20 NHS staff episodes from a GP recommending an appointment to the patient arriving in clinic by Choose and Book via the PCT referral centre. Add on the eighteen week RTT staff and I could reckon on 30 people involved – and that assumes that the appointment actually happens unmodified!

However, refer to a Polyclinic. Direct, named access, no choose and book, no artificial payments. Brilliant and a great saving. In fact, just like a hospital used to be.

I am going to the Trust (sic) board immediately for a rename to Darzi’s Polymidshires NHS Trust (no c diff honestly).

Send the fiver to …(removed ed.)

Thursday, June 12, 2008 10:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm amazed that Mary didn't opt to be treated privately. Haven't barristers heard of private medical insurance?

Friday, June 13, 2008 12:13:00 AM  
Blogger Dr John Crippen said...

Please don’t let it be true that there is a £5 payment just for referring a patient through choose and book!

++++++

It is.

There was a choice. EITHER 35p per year for each patient on your list, or £5 per referral. We went for the latter. It sucks, I agree.


John

Friday, June 13, 2008 1:26:00 AM  
Blogger NHSPenPusher said...

I'm sorry, but this is an area where the esteemed medics that post here don't have a feckin clue what they're talking about.

The language - "value stream events", "fishbone root cause anlysis", is jargon, and admittedly appears thoroughly ridiculous to those who don't understand what it means. Doctors use jargon too though y'know. It's natural.

What these techniques actually do though, is look at what happens to a patient / their notes etc in reality, and see if it makes basic sense. Why is the patient having to be repeatedly shuttled around the hospital, often adding up to several miles? Is it because related services are in the wrong place and could be relocated to speed things up? Why does it take 5 days for a discharge letter to be issued - can the consultant send an email rather than dictating a letter, waiting for it to be typed up (yes, probably in New Delhi), signing it, giving it back to his/her secretary to put in the post, and then waiting for royal mail to do its bit? Why are the patient monitors different in A&E to other departments, meaning that pulse ox sensors etc have to be swopped whenever they move?

It's not absurd or pointless, it's sensible, common sense analysis and review, and has been painfully lacking in the NHS for decades.

I wouldn't dream of ridiculing clinical techniques, as I haven't the training or skills to understand them. The same applies vice versa. I know it's very hard for medics to accept that "management" might have a better idea than them about anything, but at least consider it as a possibility eh?

Friday, June 13, 2008 10:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Ruth said...

I think the choose and book system in theory is a good thing, but in practice a disaster. My partner has bipolar and an illness that leads to growths of bone all over the body. The GP referred my partner to the choose and book system for a Consultant to look at the latest growths and see if these need to be removed.

I offered to make the call, but my partner said that the person who staffed the choose and book system is supposed to help you make the decision of which hospital to go to. Of course in reality this didn't happen. Instead any questions went unanswered, and like the example given by Dr Crippen no appointment was made.

It doesn't surprise me that 25% of referrals don't lead to an appointment being booked. I know my gran wouldn't be able to negotiate this system.

Friday, June 13, 2008 11:23:00 AM  
Blogger monoi said...

Penpusher, please find another excuse.

Having had a similar experience with regards to choose and book, those "techniques" do not seem to be working very well do they ?

Having a wife running an imaging department in a large hospital, she does not need fishbones or value stream events to know how to make her service more efficient.

I will give it to you for free: have staff which is qualified, not people who are there because "one does not fire in the NHS", and make sure that the people who are there actually give a shit and have pride in their job. Last but not least, have someone in charge who knows what they are doing, and is not impeded by pen pushers.

The rest is just waffle to make unintelligent people look good.

Friday, June 13, 2008 12:05:00 PM  
Blogger NHSPenPusher said...

Gosh, how very, very arrogant.

For one thing - Your wife runs an imaging department. Her focus is on making that department run efficiently. Her focus is not on making the hospital as a whole run efficiently. Each area has its own priorities, and sometimes these are competing. It is incredibly arrogant to believe that your wife is capable of understanding the entire and insanely complex place that is a hospital. That's not what she's employed to do.

Also, hospitals also need to run within a budget; financial considerations have to be taken into account, and waste has to be eliminated. This is not the focus of clinicians, and rightly so, as their job is to focus on patient care.

The job of management is to ensure that the whole clinical and financial jigsaw fits together in the best possible way.

These techniques have been repeatedly proven to aid that process. The improvement in cancer care since the NHS Cancer Plan was published in 2000 is a significant example.

My main Trust has been employing these techniques for a while now, to huge success. It is not about telling clinical staff how they should be running their services, it is about drawing out the information and ideas from them. The clinicians themselves generate the specific ideas for changes - the fishbones etc are tools that admin/management staff use to facilitate this. The clinicians are in complete control of the outcomes of the project.

The feedback from my Trust's clinicians that have actually gone through these projects has been overwhelmingly positive. Patient pathways have been improved, meaning that time to treatment has been significantly shortened.

The employment of these techniques has resulted in patients being treated sooner, with less hassle for them, the medics treating them, and the administrative staff who support them. This is a GOOD thing!

I'll happily concede that the language used is far too waffley. The ideas behind it are very, very worthwhile though.

Friday, June 13, 2008 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger NHSPenPusher said...

Ps:

"Having had a similar experience with regards to choose and book..."

I'm sorry, but your single piece of anecdotal evidence doesn't count for crap against what I've witnessed at one of the 10 largest healthcare organisations in the country.

Friday, June 13, 2008 12:56:00 PM  
Anonymous A. N. Other-Doc said...

Not content with lugubrious statements of the bleeding obvious, the authors of this document are also so careless in their logorrhoea that they have mistaken red for green, or are they just colour blind as well as stupid.

I know what they meant to write, but they got the post-it colours wrong. Back to kindergarten with them.

Friday, June 13, 2008 1:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, but your single piece of anecdotal evidence doesn't count for crap against what I've witnessed at one of the 10 largest healthcare organisations in the country.

You're a joke, nhspenpusher.

Your example is of course anecdotal evidence writ large.

You know what, I actually approve of making services enmeshed, complementary and lean. Little to do with managers and bastards of your ilk though, as even you partially admit. In fact the lean bit means getting rid of wasters like yourself. All you lot do is get in between patients and their professionals and cost a whole lot of money, and take up valuable space and time.

Give doctors the ability to design services how they want and great services emerge.

My large (anecdotal) example is Australia. Run by doctors from almost the top down. Result: highest healthcare standards in the world.

My small (anecdotal) example is my hospital in Australia, that myself and a colleague direct over a couple of pints in the evening. None of your jargon nonsense, but a great service that means patients are seen in the public sector for free in a lovely environment within a couple of weeks, see senior staff and are operated upon within the month, or even the week, if they need it. Satisfaction rates in the high 90s, one complaint in 6 months in a demanding patient group, superb outcomes.

Stop pushing a pen and go and do something important with your life instead of engendering waste and misery, and let the doctors sort it out.

Friday, June 13, 2008 4:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Crippo said...

'The job of management is to ensure that the whole clinical and financial jigsaw fits together in the best possible way.'

I completely agree. Great pity we don't have any. What we do have is administration. An ethos that says unless you change something, rather than do your job, you are not 'adding value to the process'. Seminars attended by the great and good to do root cause analysis, critical path analysis, care pathway design, process re-engineering and all the other wonderful things, but meanwhile leaving the people who ACTUALLY do the bloody work in the department. Unconsulted. Doing the work.

You can produce all the analyses you like. But unless you get buy-in from the shop floor, your analyses are useless.

So. Get good managers. By God we need them. And then get them to ASK THE STAFF WHAT THEY NEED.

And provide it.

Friday, June 13, 2008 6:10:00 PM  
Blogger NHSPenPusher said...

"I completely agree. Great pity we don't have any. What we do have is administration. An ethos that says unless you change something, rather than do your job, you are not 'adding value to the process'. Seminars attended by the great and good to do root cause analysis, critical path analysis, care pathway design, process re-engineering and all the other wonderful things, but meanwhile leaving the people who ACTUALLY do the bloody work in the department. Unconsulted. Doing the work."

I'm in absolute accord with this Crippo. I'm in no way defending the innumerable sub-private-sector jobsworths that make up a large amount of NHS management. I've come across so, so many, all the way up to Director level, that would be regarded as virtually unemployable if they stepped outside the public sector.

And you're also totally spot on that if the processes aren't led by the clinical staff, those that know how their areas operate each day and in each various circumstances, the entire idea is worthless.

Anon 4:59 - You don't know me, and you have fuck all idea of my talents and abilities. As it happens, they're considerable. Maybe we'd have more decent management in the NHS if we didn't have to put up with ad hom arseholes like you. I could at least double my salary by going private sector. I won't, because I have a driving desire to contribute my skills to the NHS. There aren't many like me though, so most decent management don't stay long, leaving you in the hands of the complete fuckwits mentioned above. In your particular case, that's probably what you deserve.

Friday, June 13, 2008 7:02:00 PM  
Blogger NHSPenPusher said...

And...

In fact the lean bit means getting rid of wasters like yourself. All you lot do is get in between patients and their professionals and cost a whole lot of money, and take up valuable space and time.

No, what I do, at present, is negotiate and manage contracts with medical suppliers to obtain better equipment & services for less money, and to prevent clinicians from being thoroughly ripped off by sales reps - which happens all too frequently when left to their own devices.

But you'd do away with that, so clinicians would have to spend their time running tender processes, keeping up to date with the ever changing EU commercial law, contract managing and ensuring performance against KPIs and SLAa, et cetera.

Forgive me, but I'm of the opinion that clinicians' time is better spent treating patients. And, professionally, that's why I exist.

Friday, June 13, 2008 7:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dr Crippen - so you would rather have clinicians spending time 'managing' staff, contracts, purchasing etc than dedicated managers??

You deride any management technique for identifying how improvements could be made to existing systems and processes; these techniques are used by successful businesses to improve their own systems and processes in order to maxmise their financial return.

Granted the NHS is dealing with a person going through a process as opposed to a 'good' or 'service'; however, is it not wise to look at how current systems and processes could be made more productive and how they could provide a better service to the patient?

Another poster asked why you didn't use your knowledge and influence to improve UK health care. If things are so bad there is much to be gained by suggesting and pressing for improvements. Please could you dedicate a post to how you would improve the current model of health care in the UK. You could cover off, amongst other things:
- what needs to change?
- how would you make the changes?
- how would these changes be funded?
- how does the health service address the challenges of meeting health care inflation?

Friday, June 13, 2008 8:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NHSpenpusher - still nothing from Dr C.. obviously lost for words - for once...

Sunday, June 15, 2008 8:01:00 PM  
Blogger Dr John Crippen said...

Sorry, what was the precise question to which I am accused of not replying?


John

Sunday, June 15, 2008 8:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NHSpenpusher

You think you've got considerable "talents"? all you are is a broker - same as an estate agent, same as a salesman of double glazing or 2nd hand cars. You're a parasite, like they are. You don't save money despite what you think, you cost money - your salary & your pension. Anyone could do your job. In fact the internet will soon lead to your extinction hopefully, utilising reverse auctions to get the cheapest suppliers.

Your talents are minimal, your expertise is self-diagnosed. Tell me, what are your qualifications for your current role? If you have none, then the job is unskilled.

All you do is select the lowest price supplies, regardless of quality (the NHS only has this priority). You probably know the price of everything and the value of nothing...

Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dr Crippen: "Sorry, what was the precise question to which I am accused of not replying?"

Friday, June 13, 2008 8:51:00 PM:
"Dr Crippen - so you would rather have clinicians spending time 'managing' staff, contracts, purchasing etc than dedicated managers??

You deride any management technique for identifying how improvements could be made to existing systems and processes; these techniques are used by successful businesses to improve their own systems and processes in order to maxmise their financial return.

Granted the NHS is dealing with a person going through a process as opposed to a 'good' or 'service'; however, is it not wise to look at how current systems and processes could be made more productive and how they could provide a better service to the patient?

Another poster asked why you didn't use your knowledge and influence to improve UK health care. If things are so bad there is much to be gained by suggesting and pressing for improvements. Please could you dedicate a post to how you would improve the current model of health care in the UK. You could cover off, amongst other things:
- what needs to change?
- how would you make the changes?
- how would these changes be funded?
- how does the health service address the challenges of meeting health care inflation?"

No accusation, just a request for a response, please...

Monday, June 16, 2008 7:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 10.56: 'all you are in a broker' - and? Your point is what? Managers are facilitators. Ever tried to sell a house with an Estate Agent?

You totally miss the point. All large organisations have departments which purchase goods and services, AKA the 'Supply Chain'. Is it better to have an a group of people dedicated to this task, or should Drs spend their time negotiating contracts rather than treating patients? What skills do the Drs have to undertake this task?

Monday, June 16, 2008 7:21:00 AM  
Blogger NHSPenPusher said...

"you cost money - your salary & your pension."

I save at least 10 times my annual salary each year.

"Tell me, what are your qualifications for your current role? "

Okay. MCIPS.

All you do is select the lowest price supplies, regardless of quality (the NHS only has this priority).

Nope, wrong again. As I'm sure an expert like you knows, weighting criteria for any significant tender have to be published in the Official Journal of the EU in advance. Clinical trials and evaluations ALWAYS carry the top marks.

And your understanding of reverse auctions is deeply flawed if you think it's going to do away with procurement personnel.

So again, it seems that you'd have clinicians spending their time doing my job, and those of others, rather than treating patients. Not a very clever idea.

Monday, June 16, 2008 8:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No,

I'd rather have an outsourced company in India doing procurement for 20% of the cost, with a higher level of skill applied as the standard of employees would be higher.

YOU do not save 10* your salary. The process does. Anyone can apply that process. Backroom administrators like you are in trouble as your job can be easily replicated remotely. In my practice in 15 years I have never interacted with an employee like yourself, therefore you are not consulting with those who use the supplies you are procuring. You are totally expendable in my book for this reason as you don't need to even be in the same country. See ya

Monday, June 16, 2008 7:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 7:15. "You are totally expendable in my book for this reason as you don't need to even be in the same country. See ya"

- gosh, you'd rather someone in India of all places buys goods and services for patients in the UK? How extraordinary! Someone who may have no concept of how health care is delivered and how to negotiate with UK suppliers. How on earth do you set up a face-to-face meeting with a Supplier to negotiate? Solve issues?

You talk about 'your practice' - perhaps you could elaborate on how you currently purchase goods and services? How do you choose your suppliers? Yellow Pages? Are you about to 'Outsource' to India?

Monday, June 16, 2008 7:41:00 PM  
Blogger NHSPenPusher said...

"YOU do not save 10* your salary. The process does. Anyone can apply that process."

Medics do not cure patients, the process does. The process of applying their intelligence and the training that they have received to their decision-making over the appropriate clinical treatment for the symptoms presented. All human thought is a process, you imbecile.

"In my practice in 15 years I have never interacted with an employee like yourself, therefore you are not consulting with those who use the supplies you are procuring."

No, because we are utilised primarily by Acutes. GP practices do not have complex procurement needs, nor do they tend to spend amounts above the EU thresholds, so they have less need of our services. You seem entirely unaware of how small a part you, individually, play in the entire organisation. I operate strategically, not buying you notepads and crayons for the kids to play with whilst waiting.

Moreover, your massive extrapolation based upon your individual experience reveals, I think, a rather egocentric attitude.

And as the commenter above observes, your suggestion that the job could be done remotely is absurd. Face-to-face dialogue is crucial to securing and maintaining efficient services from suppliers. To suggest otherwise demonstrates your utter ignorance, other than perhaps having read the odd article in the HSJ. It's during that dialogue that we apply the 'processes' of market analysis, negotiation strategies et cetera.

It's idiots like you, that think they can do anything, despite not having the appropriate training or skills, that cost the NHS millions of pounds a year through maverick purchasing.

I recently had one prime example 'swop' a piece of A&E equipment for a better model. They didn't bother to talk to me, because they have a similar attitude to you. The thing is, the equipment was on lease and the lessor now has the Trust over a barrel as we can't return the equipment that they hold title in. The lessor will thus charge exorbitant fees for a buy-out. Except that I have a few cards up my sleeve regarding future business for the entire SW region, and what a court would regard as a reasonable settlement figure based upon what I've calculated their residual in the equipment to be, and research of the market resale cost.

A contrast supplier has recently reduced their prices to our Trusts because we've persuaded several other Trusts to come in on our contract. This would never have been achieved without my intervention. And, before you bang on about quality again, it's a gadolinium based agent with the safest profile on the market (Re NSF - Nephrogenic Systemic Fibrosis), despite linear-structured isotopes being offered at cheaper prices by other suppliers.

I expect you need to Google some of that. Take your time.

Today, I convinced a supplier to sell us consumables at less than cost, reducing our expenditure by 80k p/a, because we've recently been awarded research centre status for that particular area. The idea had not occurred to a single one of the leading clinicians (nor should it have).

Last month we introduced procedure packs to theatres, saving both time and money for the department. This was done by extensive consultation with the surgeons, and repeated revisions of the contents of the packs until they were entirely happy. It has also freed up storage space in theatres, which is at a premium. I severely doubt the surgeons would have taken it upon themselves to do this.

Earlier this year I successfully encouraged a new supplier to enter into the market for the transport of radioactive materials for our Nuclear Meds department. The market was previously monopolised. Now that we have competition, prices are falling. Funnily enough, clinicians don't tend to pay much attention to market dynamics. Again, nor should they.

I've sourced a supply of chain-mail yet dexterous gloves for a T&O surgeon who was concerned about nicking himself whilst operating on HIV & hep patients, specific-material free gloves for a nurse with an unusual allergy, and had an entire set of haematology analysers upgraded for free because I showed, through extensive financial analysis, that they were reaping unreasonable costs on their reagents for the previous kit.

Apparently, you'd have trained clinicians doing this work.

TBH, I'm not sure there's any point engaging with you, "anonymous". You seem to have a total lack of understanding of the wider healthcare economy, as well as a blinkered and close-minded attitude towards any NHS employees that facilitate, rather than treat.

I read and contribute comments to this blog because I'm well aware of the general divide between clinicians and management (happily, not such an issue in my primary client Trust), and so seek to better understand it so that I may alleviate it through my future actions. Sadly, as with the managers that pay no heed to clinical opinion, the likes of you are only ever going to be part of the problem, rather than contributing to the solution. I only hope that you and the likes of you approach retirement rapidly.

Monday, June 16, 2008 9:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NHS penpusher,

You haven't got a clue how things can work without admin parasites like yourself, have you? Many of the things you have described I have done for my dept on the side. It didn't require someone like yourself believe it or not. It doesn't require strategy, because your "strategy" is based on no knowledge of service development and the direction of innovation in medicine. I'll answer only a few of your points.

Your first example re A&E equipment. Why was this equipment leased in the first place (by an organisation that can easily afford capital purchase) with a restrictive covenant and no "out" for when technically superceded? Your fault. Your crap contract. How dare you criticise clinicians who want better kit to treat their patients.

2nd, I've recently organised high-tech equipment for my theatre. The cost for the main piece of kit? Nothing. We pay for consumables only, the main kit is on permanent loan, note, not a "lease". The price of consumables was minimised by trialling 2 separate technologies against each other and allowing the reps to know they were competing then negotiating downwards. The reps are keen to form a relationship with the clinicians running the unit.

Getting a deal is fucking easy and don't try to pretend otherwise.

Third, your "idea" of getting consumables on the cheap because you're a research centre. Yawn. Done many times. I'll give you ONE example among many. Go to Kings in London and ask how much they pay for their ultrasound machines? Answer: zero, because they lead in research in ultrasound. Happens all over the place and is usually lead by clinicians. So you copied the tactic - wow.

4th and finally - theatre packs? ARE YOU BEING FUCKING SERIOUS YOU UTTER TWAT. If you're only doing something now that is routine practice worldwide then you are a in need of something more than a kick up the arse. Eg. ages ago I constructed (with the theatre team) separate packs for emergency vs. elective specific procedures to account for differences in staff mix and need-for-speed, packs for specific situations to include devices and drugs etc etc.

ANYONE CAN DO YOUR JOB. YOU'RE NOT NEEDED. Get rid of you, devolve and let clinicians make your decisions. The boring legislative stuff CAN be outsourced - EASILY. Decisions will be more timely, more appropriate, and likely more cost-effective.

Cancerous administrators and managers infest every aspect of the NHS, and justify their existence with cant like penpusher's above. He's one of a multitude in different McJobs in different depts. It sounds superficially good but doesn't withstand even the slightest analysis. He thinks layers of management and administrators are "facilitators". They're not. Doctors, nurses and other clinicians should be making decisions. There's plenty of other redtape from all the other crapulous bastards that can be removed to make time for occasional simple purchasing decisions.

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:55:00 PM  
Blogger NHSPenPusher said...

This post has been removed by the author.

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:18:00 AM  
Blogger NHSPenPusher said...

You haven't got a clue how things can work without admin parasites like yourself, have you? Many of the things you have described I have done for my dept on the side.

I'm sure you're convinced you got the best deal possible didn't you? I expect the reps told you what a good deal you were getting. And you're so smart, there's no chance of mere salesmen fooling you is there? No, cos you can do anything. Maverick purchasing costs the NHS millions each year. Millions thrown down the drain because of arrogance such as yours.

It didn't require someone like yourself believe it or not. It doesn't require strategy, because your "strategy" is based on no knowledge of service development and the direction of innovation in medicine.

Startegy is also concerned with market dynamics. That's what we're concerned with. Left to clinicians, we end up with the cartel like arrangements you see in cardiac supply, costing the public purse millions more.

That information is provided by the relevant clinicians on each project. At these Trusts, we communicate with each other. There is mutual respect. A concept clearly alien to god-complex idiots like you.

I'll answer only a few of your points.

Why am I not suprised?

Your first example re A&E equipment. Why was this equipment leased in the first place (by an organisation that can easily afford capital purchase) with a restrictive covenant and no "out" for when technically superceded? Your fault. Your crap contract. How dare you criticise clinicians who want better kit to treat their patients.

It was leased because the clinicians did it direct, convinced that they knew best. Maverick purchasing again. That' why I 'dare' criticise the clinicians. That choice of phrase itself demonstrates your incredible arrogance once more.

2nd, I've recently organised high-tech equipment for my theatre. The cost for the main piece of kit? Nothing. We pay for consumables only, the main kit is on permanent loan, note, not a "lease".

It's called a reagent rental agreement by the way, as the original ones were done for path analysers. It's incredibly commonplace. And you are paying for the kit you imbecile, through the cost of the consumables. You think the company have just given you the equipment cos you're such an impressive intellect or something. You make me laugh.

The price of consumables was minimised by trialling 2 separate technologies against each other and allowing the reps to know they were competing then negotiating downwards.

Gosh. How clever.

The reps are keen to form a relationship with the clinicians running the unit.

Of course they fucking are. Because egomaniacs like you pay for their children's education.

Getting a deal is fucking easy and don't try to pretend otherwise.

"Getting a deal". Love it. Doubt it's a very good deal though. Benchmarked it elsewhere? No?

Third, your "idea" of getting consumables on the cheap because you're a research centre. Yawn. Done many times. I'll give you ONE example among many. Go to Kings in London and ask how much they pay for their ultrasound machines? Answer: zero, because they lead in research in ultrasound. Happens all over the place and is usually lead by clinicians. So you copied the tactic - wow.

Wasn't led by clinicians here chuckles. I never said is was revolutionary, I said it wouldn't have happened without our intervention. Which is correct. You've made no point.

4th and finally - theatre packs? ARE YOU BEING FUCKING SERIOUS YOU UTTER TWAT. If you're only doing something now that is routine practice worldwide then you...

More ad hom attacks. You're clearly a very angry individual. rather worrying that people are in your care, to be honest.

Funnily enough, I'm not able to go back in time and introduce Theatre packs to these Trusts ten years ago. Unlike you (I'm sure), I'm unable to time-travel.

Get rid of you, devolve and let clinicians make your decisions. The boring legislative stuff CAN be outsourced - EASILY. Decisions will be more timely, more appropriate, and likely more cost-effective.

You're either unable to read or not half as bright as you think. What part of "the clinician's make the decisions" do you not understand? Your only argument is that we should all be outsourced to India, which is such a poor idea it barely deserves any response at all. Worked well with medical secretaries where it's been tried didn't it?

Cancerous administrators and managers infest every aspect of the NHS, and justify their existence with cant like penpusher's above. He's one of a multitude in different McJobs in different depts. It sounds superficially good but doesn't withstand even the slightest analysis. He thinks layers of management and administrators are "facilitators". They're not. Doctors, nurses and other clinicians should be making decisions. There's plenty of other redtape from all the other crapulous bastards that can be removed to make time for occasional simple purchasing decisions.

I'm not going to detail all I do in my job. Frankly, your an extremely hostile and aggressive poster with no possiblity of dialogue, so why should I? Your ignorance of your own ignorance is absolutely astounding though. Tell you what, if it's so easy, I think you should register to sit the next round of CIPS examinations. I'm sure you'll fly through. Then you may have some credibility in this area. Until then, you're just bluster and wind.

No wonder the NHS is in such a fucking awful state if it's full of deranged narcissists like you. Like a toddler who doesn't get its own way, you scream and scream and dig your heels in.

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NHS penpusher is a functionary in a large faceless organisation. His communistic-like defence of large-scale administrative decisions, remote from the front-end, with an undisguised sense of his own rightness, is disquieting.

There are tens of thousands of similar administrators and middle managers all through the NHS, all convinced of their own worth.

Their salaries cost BILLIONS. Their pensions will cost billions, maybe even trillions.

Let me draw a parallel. Would you rather stay in a boutique hotel / quality B&B or a standard room in a Hilton?

NHSpenpusher represents the Hilton choice. They claim to be better, and draw economies of scale via large purchasing decisions. Really all that means is that the supplying company have only one person or dept to influence rather than many. Therefore the vendor can use ALL their sophisticated sales resources in a very concentrated fashion on one middle-ranking individual or department drunk on their own "power". The purchased commodity is usually satisfactory and just good enough but that is all. The price is normally OK, but that's all.

The alternative, the boutique hotel, has better quality accomodation usually for a cheaper price. Why? They can't score the large scale cheap deals. What they do better is much more targeted spending with no hugely expensive staff in the middle.

I stay in boutique hotels when I travel beacuse of price, quality and value. I do not stay in Hiltons, although there are plenty who do because of inertia and because it's an unimaginative choice to make. It's only a room after all. In healthcare though you shouldn't be so blase. Quality counts.

In health, I provide a boutique service with 95% extremely or very satisfied ratings, for half the price of the next door megahospital infested with people like NHSpenpusher. We provide a much superior service with measured outcomes 50% better across a large variety of indicators with a similar patient group.

It's a no-brainer. Discard the mediocre middle managers & administrators, empower frontline staff. The benefits will accrue immediately. Savings will be massive. Quality & staff engagement will pyramid upwards.

To answer a few of your points, it was YOU who was boasting about theatre packs, which are standard in every hospital I've worked in in the last 10 years. I was denigrating your sense of achievement because there is no achievement in catching up to standard provision. The clinicians in your hospital are so out of it, no wonder you look good. You would not look good elsewhere I can assure you.

Next point, the consumables of course profit the supplier. DOHHH. If they didn't they wouldn't supply for long. Your communism does your argument no good. A profit has to be made to spur further innovation. I'd like to know how what tactic you could have used to achieve better prices, so I can use the tactic next time. I'm quite happy that the manufacturers make reasonable profits if I'm helping patients do better than ever before. You're a communist so you don't agree with this. Fair enough. Most don't agree with you.

The reason clinicians haven't made their own initiatives (like theatre packs - unbelieveable) in NHSpenpusher's hospital, is because they have been disempowered by wankers like NHSpenpusher who thinks that having a qualification is needed to score the right deal. As I say, get rid of their dept and you save millions on their salary & infrastructure, easily compensating for the odd time when they might have got a slightly better price, and enthuse the local clinicians who can then directly affect the care they give.

When the private sector comes in and takes over the NHS, NHSpenpusher will become DHSSdoledrawer, believe me. He knows it deep down of course, hence his anguished squawks.

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh,

By the way medical transcription in India works brilliantly. Faster, cheaper, more accurate than a medical secretary. Letters are dispatched the morning after an afternoon clinic, instead of days or weeks later.

Sorry.

Just shows how out of touch you are. Join the real world.

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And oh again penpusher,

I quote another poster.

On the subject of hoof - has Dr C anything to say about the outstanding success of rolling out home oxygen supplies to large private companies? This was done 2 years ago and removed the service from small local pharmacists to the big boys in order to save money. Not only is the system slow and inefficient now, it also costs almost double what it did when the local pharmacists did it! Shades of things to come when big companies take over GP surgeries??

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=23&storycode=4119582&c=2


DO YOU FUCKING SEE? YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:42:00 PM  
Blogger NHSPenPusher said...

Yawn.

You're close-minded, deluded, and apparantly psychic in your knowledge of me and my client Trusts.

By the way medical transcription in India works brilliantly. Faster, cheaper, more accurate than a medical secretary. Letters are dispatched the morning after an afternoon clinic, instead of days or weeks later.

Ha! That's brilliant. Yes, they're very fast. And issue letters rammed full of spelling and grammatical errors. Sometimes, such as when specifying a treatment/medication, those errors are dangerous. Funny how it's me that is concerned about quality and patient-safety here, not you.

This 'discussion' (or abuse on your part, in the main) is going nowhere and neither is it likely to. Feel free to keep commenting on this thread, but I'm bored now. Bye.

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You will continue to read I'm sure. Even if no reply I'll know you'll have read - you're very easy to predict.

I see you have no arguments left. So I win. Good.

BTW, the medical transcription I use has quality standards written into the contract. I dictate both to medical secretaries and to transcription. There is little difference in quality (if anything the Indian is probably better), the difference in speed is massive, and the costs for transcription are 10-20% of the local secretary.

Once again, you are outargued by someone who knows what really happens on the ground, instead of what's heard in the office in the PCT management suite.

Your time as a labour apparatchik will soon be over. PCTs will give way to the next bunch of useless middling wankers who interfere and waste shedloads of money. You will be invited to reapply for a job and maybe you will fail. Then you'll be able to look forward to selling double-glazing or living off benefits. What good your crappy correspondence course qualification then?

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And tell me,

Your types negotiated the replacement of local oxygen suppliers didn't they. Double the cost, half the flexibility.

You useless bastards.

(Still not reading, schmuck)

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:46:00 PM  

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Dr John Crippen's weekly diary. The trials and tribulations, the pleasures and pitfalls of family medicine in the modern British National Health Service.

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