Friday, June 27, 2008

The rise of the Health Care Professionals : don't say I didn't warn you


From day one of NHS BLOG DOCTOR I have been determined to warn of the gradual destruction of the NHS. Like government taxation policy, it is being done by stealth; by gradually dumbing down front line NHS services.

The destruction of psychiatry.

Three days after I started I wrote about the Community Mental Health Team in Shocking Psychiatry. In days gone by, when I had diagnosed someone as suffering from a serious mental illness that required more specialist treatment than I could reasonably provide, I referred then to a psychiatrist. Not with much enthusiasm it must be said as the psychiatric services in my area are, for the most part, dreadful. GPs no longer have direct access to psychiatrists. In my area the psychiatrists are so lazy that they refuse even to read GP referral letters. Instead, the letters go to the collection of unqualified amateurs who think psychiatry is a game; a game that can be played by anyone who has learnt a little plausible jargon. Some are well-meaning; some are arrogant fuck-wits, so intoxicated by their own perceived “power” over the patients that they think they know more than doctors. Their mickey-mouse tick-sheet medicine causes incalculable damage and demeans the patients. Those who read the Times may have seen this today:
Mentally ill are 'jollied along' rather than treated by psychiatrists

People suffering from mental illness are frequently being misdiagnosed or receiving inadequate treatment, according to a group of leading psychiatrists. The doctors say that patients with serious problems are often referred to psychologists and social workers rather than clinicians and do not receive the medical therapies they need.

“If a GP suspected a patient had cancer, he wouldn't dream of referring him to anybody other than a cancer specialist. A cancer patient might need jollying along, but what he really needs is the correct diagnosis and treatment. That's what he gets from a specialist. But patients with mental illness are not automatically referred to psychiatrists. If they only see a social worker, there's every chance that mental illness, or underlying physical illness, will be missed. Patients are getting a bum deal.” (Professor Nick Craddock)

Describing their letter as a “wake-up call” to British psychiatry, the psychiatrists say that the desire not to stigmatise people has also done damage by implying that there is no such thing as mental illness. Patients are now known as “service users” rather than patients — even though, when asked, 67 per cent preferred the word patient and only 9 per cent service user. Treatments are provided at “mental health” centres, not mental illness clinics.

Psychiatry, the group says, is the only medical speciality to adopt an approach that so distorts its original purpose. “For those with severe mental illness, to avoid medicalisation is at best confusing and at worst damaging or even life-threatening ... these individuals are being let down by the current state of affairs.”

Full article
here
Don’t say I didn’t warn you. Of course, the government loves it. It saves money. To make it sound good they call it “New Ways of Working” as though there is some intrinsic merit in the something new.
A spokeswoman for the Department of Health said: “The introduction of New Ways of Working has been widely welcomed by service users, carers and psychiatrists. Working with multidisciplinary teams has allowed the needs of people who use mental health services to be better met and frees up psychiatrists' time to work with more complex clinical cases.”
You can fool some of the people some of the time… It is extraordinary how the government can get away with this breathtaking dishonesty. But make no mistake, they are getting away with it and they are extending it to the whole of the health service.


The destruction of general practice
NHS review to push for more nurse-led care.
The long awaited review into the future of the NHS by Lord Darzi will next week propose a big boost in the size of independent nurse-led provision of primary care, similar in ambition to the rise of independent foundation hospitals. The government has proposed an expansion of nurse-led services in the primary care sector in the past, but progress has been slow. In an effort to speed up the process, Darzi will suggest that nurse-led partnerships should be given a statutory right to request a local primary care trust to allow them to set up as a not-for-profit trust. (
source)
Here we go again. Remember, nurses are much cheaper than doctors. Five GCSEs and three years as a student nurse and out pops nursey. Ten GCSEs, four “A” levels, five or six years at medical school and another four or five years post-graduate training and out pops a family doctor. Who do you want diagnosing you?

Darzi quotes the Central Surrey Health Partnership as example of independent nurses working in primary care. Dr Crippen has never heard of Central Surrey Health Partnerhip and had to call in Dr Google. It’s all here.
Central Surrey Health is a not-for-profit, limited liability company under contract to provide community nursing and therapy services on behalf of the East Elmbridge and Mid Surrey Primary Care Trust. The contract is similar to those held by GP surgeries (a specialist medical services contract). Central Surrey Health employs around 650 staff who formerly delivered community nursing and therapy services from within the PCT. They are:

district nurses
community hospital nurses
school nurses
specialist nurses
health visitors
nursery nurses
physiotherapists
podiatrists
dieticians
speech and language therapists
occupational therapists
support and administrative assistants

On transferring to Central Surrey Health all staff were presented with a single share in the company. As co-owners, they are responsible for delivering patient services and shaping the company's future. (
Source)
Surry PCT has flogged off some of its nursing and other community services to an independent body of entrepreneurial nurses. I have no problem with that. New Labour would never admit it but this is stealth privatisation of the NHS. Is it working? I have not got a clue. Can anyone in Surrrey let me know?

Whether or not it is working does not matter. To take the usual airline analogy, this is just a load of trolley-dollies joining together and taking over the on board cappuccino and sandwich franchise. You would not want them flying the aeroplane. Which is where my Lord Darzi is being fraudulently dishonest. He is suggesting that because the sandwiches are good, the trolley dollies can fly the aeroplane.
Ministers believe nurse-run services have enormous potential to cut bureaucracy in primary care and focus care more directly on the needs of patients. (source)
Ministers also believe that you can employ four nurses for the price of one doctor but they are not going to say anything as vulgar as that. As always, you get what you pay for and, in this case, pay peanuts, get monkeys. The government knows that untrained monkeys are no substitue for doctors but thinks they may be able to fudge it by issuing the monkeys with Disease Management protocols.  With a protocol, anyone can play doctor. As Professor Sir Michael Rawlins the Chairman of NICE, the National Institute for Clinical Expedience, said today they are going to produce “guidelines for health professionals”.

Say hello to the “health professional” run polyclinics and say good bye to the family doctor. This will save you, the taxpayer, a lot of money. Maybe you will be happy to have your health problems managed by people who are not medically trained.

If that is what you want, so be it. It’s a free world. If that is not what you want, take out private health insurance as soon as possible.

Labels: , , ,

45 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is wrong with polyclinics? Last week I went to my GP to ask for a simple cholesterol test. She spent 5 minutes just to prescribe the test. Then I had to go back there to see a nurse who took the blood.3 days later I get a call from the receptionist saying the GP wants to see me for a routine appointment (meaning my cholesterol tests are bad). I go there for the third time and the GP says it is at 6.1 and therefore I need to see a dietician.So four visits for one bleeding cholesterol test. I need a one-top shop!

Friday, June 27, 2008 2:41:00 PM  
Anonymous starlite said...

I think you are closew to the truth here. The Government has long wanted PCTs to become commissioning-only bodies.

The only thing that has stopped PCT_run community services being flogged off to Big Business is fear of adverse public reaction to district nurses being privatised.

So they are now trying to spin it as a service enhancement.

Friday, June 27, 2008 2:48:00 PM  
Blogger Dr John Crippen said...

I need a one-top shop!

++++++

And soon you will have on; let's hope that you always know which test to order because nursey won't

John

Friday, June 27, 2008 3:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Jonathan Hearsey said...

I'm fascinated by your style, Dr C, but I can't work out if it’s anger that's coming through or good ol’ fashioned writing talent (or, indeed both) - regardless, in a very un-sycophantic way, I'm interested in your views, particularly as, in your eyes, I'm a quack – worse still, I'm a quack working for the NHS in a musculoskeletal MDT.

I am aware of the issues that faced the psych teams previously and I agree with your comments - (there is a 'but' coming - you sussed that though, didn't you...!) - BUT (there it is...), there are a few Extended Scope Practitioners and HCPs/AHPs) working in the NHS that DO know their limitations and never, ever allude to even suggest that they are medically qualified. Personally, I wouldn't even consider working in a MDT if it weren’t medically led.

What is needed is to reassure medics that the HCPs et al will flag up, immediately, any concern that they might have or a case that is not within their ability to handle. There needs to be proper consultation prior to these services starting.

It's the way the service is going - we need medics on board with this for it to work.

JH

(Personal PHI = BUPA (Gd C) Family Cover, just in case, like!)

Friday, June 27, 2008 3:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Crippo said...

Anonymous, you were seen by a qualified professional who did an investigation, were then told the result and have received appropriate advice.

And you're complaining?

Let's break this down.

'Last week I went to my GP to ask for a simple cholesterol test. She spent 5 minutes just to prescribe the test.'

So she asked you a bit about yourself, just to make sure that a cholesterol test was all you needed. And to find out why you needed one in the first place. Excellent standard of care, by the way.

'3 days later I get a call from the receptionist saying the GP wants to see me for a routine appointment'

So the GP wanted to see you to discuss your options, and to give you the result of the test in person so you could ask all the relevant questions yourself, instead of being given a number by phone with no knowledge of what it means.

You have just received everything that is good about the current system. Personal care which 'thinks outside the box'


Now let's look at the polyclinic way.


You roll up to the clinic.

You want a cholesterol done. NP sees you. Takes blood. Result is 6.1. You are hanedd a diet sheet, and go off happy. Whole things takes an hour. Fantastic! What a service!

Except. No-one has taken a history. They didn't get a whiff of your episode of palpitations. Or your increasing thirst (you thought it was the hot weather) or the swelling of you ankles. They didn't realise that you can't eat the food on the diet sheet (not kosher), and what they have said doesn't really suit you as you work nights. And no-one has asked you why you wanted a cholesterol done in the first place. Something you read on the net? Your father died of an infarct when he was 42? Very different scenarios.

So you go off happy. But you have not received any medical care.


Anonymous, you are sadly the reason why medicine is going down the toilet. You think the service you got was WORSE than the cheapo dumbed down option. You have swallowed all the crap about 'customer focus', and are not bright enough to realise what you are losing.


Sometimes I could weep, I really could.


Joni Mitchell, again.

Friday, June 27, 2008 3:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the letter complaining about psych service was written by psychiatrist was it not?, then seems a bit mean dr C to still suggest the problem is through laziness, although i do know how workshy some can be.
steve
gp reg

Friday, June 27, 2008 3:21:00 PM  
Blogger Dr John Crippen said...

the letter complaining about psych service was written by psychiatrist was it not?, then seems a bit mean dr C to still suggest the problem is through laziness, although i do know how workshy some can be.
steve
gp reg

++++++

there are some excellent psychiatrists around, though not where I work

BUT if psychiatrists no longer even read referral letters, and the CMHT sees most of the patients, what do they do all day?



John

Friday, June 27, 2008 3:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Crippo said...

John, what's your e-mail? I can't find it on the site, sorry.

Friday, June 27, 2008 3:44:00 PM  
Blogger Dr Snuggles said...

You can go to the chemist and get a 'one stop shop' cholesterol test for a modest fee if you don't like professional pre-test counselling and post-test results interpretation and advice.

If the result is 6.1, what will you do then? The pharmacist won't know and will advise seeing the GP. How tiresome for you. Or you could look it up on the internet and pretend or hope that YOU know what the significance of the result is.

If you go to the GP, he or she will repeat the test, as the cheapo finger-prick tests on offer at the chemist's shop seem to give results bearing little relation to the proper tests done on a venous sample, taken by the phlebotomist and processed by the hospital lab. It's all so inconvenient, this high quality medical care isn't it? Sigh.

Friday, June 27, 2008 3:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I work at sea where obviously doctors are in short supply - the NHS seems to be using this as a care model. Medical advice is available by radio from the radio medical advice centre in Rome and the Officer with Medical Responsibility (normally the Captain) has the Ship's Captain's medical guide (full of flow-charts and protocols for us nautical dunces) to help us. Why not save the NHS piles of money by sacking all these expensive nurses (3 years training &c) and sticking people through the month's worth of advanced medical care courses required of a Master Mariner and giving them the SCMG (Link here)

Surely if it's suitable for sailors it must be suitable for the rest of the population - man with protocol, knife, suturing kit and a bag of drugs and a doctor in some office on the end of the phone ?

Friday, June 27, 2008 3:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"What is wrong with polyclinics? Last week I went to my GP to ask for a simple cholesterol test. ....."


yeah & soon you'll be on the Statins & have fuc king sore legs & you'll regret asking for the cholestrol test.

Friday, June 27, 2008 4:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

GP's never make mistakes? Give me a diligent nurse over an overpaid and mentally flabby GP any day. Worse are the the career doccies, whose sole ambition is to make money. Even worser and dangerous are those doing part-time gpeeing.

Private care in the UK is all about making money - pure and simple - they don't do A&E and they don't do research. If cost cutting is to be made within say BUPA and Spire where do you think they'll do it?

Friday, June 27, 2008 4:22:00 PM  
Anonymous starlite said...

How can one set of doctors be worst and another set even worse? Your own thinking seems even flabbier.

Friday, June 27, 2008 5:40:00 PM  
Blogger pj said...

I'd like to speak up for social workers, CPNs and psychologists in mental health. I've found most to be essential members of a CMHT. But it certainly shouldn't be the case that they 'jolly along' psychiatric patients without medical (and thus diagnostic) input.

And I must confess I don't have any objections to the polyclinic model in principle (although I'm fairly sure they'll be used to privatise NHS provision even further in reality), but I just can't get my head around some of the crazy new 'doctors light' that some random bureaucrat has decided would be a much more cost effective replacement for actual doctors.

I've been having a moan about the US style 'physician assistants' or 'medical care practitioners' they want to introduce to the NHS, particularly in primary care and A&E, who, as far as I can tell, have less than half the training of a new house officer (making them equivalent to a 4th year medical student on a 6-year programme), get paid more for less work, are claimed to work at the level of an SHO or higher (according to, among others, the Royal College of Physicians) but a real doctor is legally liable for their mistakes and prescriptions.*

I'm all for triage (much neglected under the 4-hour limits in A&E), and other healthcare professionals managing minor complaints, but I just wonder what this magical training is that these people undergo to make them so much better than the real doctors they are to replace, perhaps it is the exclusion of the identification and management of medical emergencies? Of course anyone can deal with the majority of the cases faced by GPs and in A&E - the key is in not missing the minority who have actually got something wrong with them! It seems like the new model is to just treat the worried well and let the troublesome sick ones remove themselves from the patient population (and then blame the supervising doctor).

* What is so dangerous about this is that as they replace more and more real doctors with I-can't-believe-it's-not-been-to-medical-school substitutes those legally and clinically carrying the can will have less and less opportunity to properly scrutinise what the noctors are doing, while the PGDip in doctoring graduates will become overconfident and make mistakes.

Friday, June 27, 2008 5:48:00 PM  
Anonymous NI GP said...

John

You are absolutely right in everything you say except

"This will save you, the taxpayer, a lot of money"

It won't even do that, what with the PFIs for the new shiny Polyclinics (BMA estimates premises costs will be three times higher than for similar traditional GP premises), the guaranteed, gold plated contracts for the private companies (like the ISTCs in secondary care)and the consultancies advising on how to privatize and dumb down primary care it won't be any cheaper, just worse.

Like Crippo above, sometimes you really want to weep, of course I am biased but they really are going to destroy the most comprehensive and efficient primary care service in the world. And it will be missed.

Friday, June 27, 2008 6:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NIGP said
'they are really going to destroy the most comprehensive and efficient primary care service in the world'. ROFLMAO.

No it isn't. Already the health services in Scotland and Wales are forging ahead on European models. Northern Ireland hides behind the skirts of the English model. Northern Irish health care is a disgrace and has no place within a pluralistic society.

Things can be worse and worser still, Starlite, Wake up your flabby brain. Tautology it isn't.

Friday, June 27, 2008 6:17:00 PM  
Anonymous NI GP said...

What's the pluralistic society got to do with it? I'm confused by your post

Friday, June 27, 2008 6:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a nurse. I am not a doctor. I do not want to be a doctor. I do want work alongside doctors in peace and harmony and an atmosphere of mutual respect. One in which I acknowledge that the person who is ultimately in charge of a patient is a doctor. One in which those doctors recognise that I have the intelligence to ontribute useful suggestions for that patient's care.
And one in which I am NOT called 'NURSEY'!

Friday, June 27, 2008 6:31:00 PM  
Anonymous concerned mum said...

NIGP said 'I am confused' oh bless.

Anon @6:31pm. My daughter wants to be a nurse but as I read this blog my instinct is against it. The very thought that my darling would be thought of in such terms as 'nursey' leaves me cold. I would rather she marry a rich bloke (preferably not a doctor) and avoid the career.

However your post has restored my faith. Thank you.

Friday, June 27, 2008 7:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I found a very good free web site!

http://hav.uni.cc

Friday, June 27, 2008 7:43:00 PM  
Anonymous S said...

"If you don't eat yr meat, you can't have any pudding!"

Well, the juniors have just ate all their meat teacher. Have you saved them their pudding? Please ...

Friday, June 27, 2008 7:50:00 PM  
Anonymous the a&e charge nurse said...

Nurse practitioners are not new, our lot [in A&E] have been at it at least a decade now, and very good they are too.

Nurses were asked to pick up the slack because of the EWTD - put simply the NHS could no longer rely on junior doctors to routinely put in a weeks extra work absolutely gratis......... so, they got the nurses to do some of it.

Nowadays the NHS finds it increasingly difficult [if not impossible] to sustain its founding principles of a comprehensive and universal service, free at the point of care.

Hell, we already waste over a billion on the unbiquitous statins alone when we include staff time [and lab work] on top of the £730 million we spend on the actual statins themselves - I have no doubt these drugs will prove to a bigger disaster than antibiotics [if that's actually possible].

Factor in the cost of a population of 1 million+ with dementia [by 2020] on top of the £100 billion the NHS already spends - well, you don't need to be Einstein to figure out why so many observers and commentators are rather nervous about the publics willingness to support such a problematic institution.

By all means obsess about the nurse quack side show [because that's all it is] but the words, wind, and, pissing in the, spring to mind.

Yet inevitably the usual check list is still trotted out:
reference to intellectual superiority......check.
poor standards of quack care.....check.
unethical/insightless practitoners.....check.

Hardly anyone ever one ever points out that these developments simply reflect burgeoning demand rather than any meaningful threat to what doctors do [although it would be nice if one or two of them knew a bit more about statins].

There are just as many doctors as there have always been [in fact, there are more of them] - but despite the best efforts of ALL concerned the NHS never seems to achieve the sysphian task of satisfying patient demand/expectations......maybe that's the real problem ?

Friday, June 27, 2008 8:17:00 PM  
Anonymous NI GP said...

The Out of Hours organization I work for is a co-owned, not for profit organization such as Central Surrey. It certainly seems to provide a better service than those run by Serco etc but the main difference from an NHS run service appears to be that the employees (regardless of being shareholders) have worse conditions than similar staff who work within the NHS, particularly as regards sick leave, sick pay and pensions.

anonymous 6.31, "nursey" is one of John's verbal missiles to emphasize a point and stir up a reaction. I would never use it but I doubt if John would use it outside his blog either. I have been totally aware since my first day as a doctor many years ago that nurses are just as essential as doctors in keeping the NHS going both in secondary and primary care and happily acknowledge that I have been saved from disaster by experienced, professional and friendly nurses on innumerable occasions. (I hope that does not sound patronizing, it is quite genuine).

The problem is that some of your colleagues are being pushed (for NHS financial reasons dressed up as career development) into roles beyond their traditional role and expertise and sometimes it is dangerous for patient safety, for the individual nurse and usually for some doctor who will be held responsible for any resulting disaster. Your professional hierarchy seems to be happy to push this agenda regardless of the problems.

Friday, June 27, 2008 8:18:00 PM  
Anonymous EnglishNHSworker said...

"they are really going to destroy the most comprehensive and efficient primary care service in the world'. ROFLMAO.

No it isn't. Already the health services in Scotland and Wales are forging ahead on European models"

comment two contributors.

(cough) Not in England. We pay for much of the medical care for other parts of the UK. We pay for our prescriptions. We English don't get the same health and social care cost concessions available across our land borders.

Scotland and Wales can indulge in parallel governments and twiddle about with healthcare models because England subsidises the cost.

Discuss

Friday, June 27, 2008 11:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Dr Chris Gale said...

The problem is that community psychiatry is expensive. You need a doctor for about every 100 to 200 patients in specailty care: most of it is hands-on. You also need a member of the team for about every 30 people in the service. Ideally, the psychiatrist sees the patient, an appropriate (that means effective) treatment is offered, and the patient goes back to primary care.

But… the ideology among mandarins is that mental illness has social causes. They clearly have not conversations like this;

Doc: how are you going?
Pt: the new meds are making me shake and i’m not sleeping well, but I’m much better.
Doc why? (thinking he cannot tolerate this drug?
Pt. I’m not scared to leave the house and I can now get to places I want to go.

Psychiatry needs to be remedicalised. Psychiatric nursing needs to be nursing: social workers need to social work (psychologists can supervise therapy, or leave). We need skilled people.

But these are expensive. In the old days we used psychiatric hospitals — which were underfunded and negelected patients. Now we use charities, who employ underskilled caregivers because they are underpaid. For the patient with chronic, crippling psychosis, the amount and quality of care has not changed for the better and (particularly in the US, where “patient rights” mandate abandonment of the most vulnerable) the care is far, far worse.

Saturday, June 28, 2008 1:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Oldgit said...

When I was a kid we played doctors and nurses. Do the kids of today play advanced practicioners and HCPs?

Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Five GCSEs and three years as a student nurse and out pops nursey. Ten GCSEs, four “A” levels, five or six years at medical school and another four or five years post-graduate training and out pops a family doctor. Who do you want diagnosing you?"


Hmmmmmm more of your nonsense. I have FIVE GCSEs (All C's and I am most proud of the one in Drama) no A levels (I got into medicine with my nursing degree) and have done FOUR years in medicine. I am a GP Registrar and am GOOD at my job. I have brought along my empathy from nursing and added it to my medical knowledge = a doctor as good as anyone of your traditional students.

I am SO fed up of reading your old boy network garbage. Times are moving forward and it is time for you to except that we do not have to fit into one of your moulds in order to practice good health care.

Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:48:00 AM  
Blogger Dr John Crippen said...

"Five GCSEs and three years as a student nurse and out pops nursey. Ten GCSEs, four “A” levels, five or six years at medical school and another four or five years post-graduate training and out pops a family doctor. Who do you want diagnosing you?"


Hmmmmmm more of your nonsense. I have FIVE GCSEs (All C's and I am most proud of the one in Drama) no A levels (I got into medicine with my nursing degree) and have done FOUR years in medicine. I am a GP Registrar and am GOOD at my job. I have brought along my empathy from nursing and added it to my medical knowledge = a doctor as good as anyone of your traditional students.

I am SO fed up of reading your old boy network garbage. Times are moving forward and it is time for you to except that we do not have to fit into one of your moulds in order to practice good health care.

++++++

Excellent stuff. Good for you. You must not be weighed down by the house style here. The points I made about the educational pathway into medicine and nursing are still perfectly valid.

You got your (albeit in terms of medicine very ordinary) GCSEs. You did your three years training. You probably did a bit more too. You then did your BSc (Bedpan) and presumably realised that that only qualified you to be a nurse quacktitioner running round with a clipboard and getting on everyone's tits. You realised that the only way to be a real doctor was to go to medical school and so you did the graduate entry programme. Good for you. (I mean that sincerely). You are now a doctor, and well on your way to qualifying as a family doctor. I would think that your genuine nursing skills (I mean hands on nursing not all the BSc (Bedpan) crap) will be an enormous asset to you as a GP.

If only more of your colleagues had your insight.

Please set up your own blog. Write about your experiences. I await with interest to see how you will react in a few months/years time when some pisswit nurse quacktitioner starts messing up your patients and THEN starts telling you how to do your job.

Please, please set up your own blog. I will give it a big plug for you. Do email me at NHSBLOGDOCTOR@gmail.com


John

Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:36:00 AM  
Blogger Better 4 Your Health said...

Hello! =)
Just created my own blog about health and healthy life. http://better4yourhealth.blogspot.com/
If you not against - lets exchange links in blogs)
I'll be wayting for your answer on vmpakv@gmail.com

Saturday, June 28, 2008 12:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone know any more about this story?

A psychiatrist who released a mental patient who then stabbed a retired banker to death is suing for compensation.
Consultant Gill Mezey wants more than £300,000 from her employer for damage to her career.

Saturday, June 28, 2008 1:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anon1 said...

Anonymous:

"Hmmmmmm more of your nonsense. I have FIVE GCSEs (All C's and I am most proud of the one in Drama) no A levels (I got into medicine with my nursing degree)"

Where did you study for your degree in medicine? The name of the school please. Because, three A levels to include Chemistry is a must if you are to get into medicine, even as a graduate ( 3 A levels to include Chimistry at a minimum of C grade taken at first attempt) even if you go on a foundation course first!

Saturday, June 28, 2008 6:05:00 PM  
Anonymous E said...

"nursey" is one of John's verbal missiles to emphasize a point and stir up a reaction."

Nursey is purile, superior, childish and insulting. It does nothing to advance the argument.

Saturday, June 28, 2008 6:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Peter Sweet said...

One of my surgical colleagues used to call all nurses "sister", many of them were flattered. I never had the heart to tell them it was simply because the individual couldn't remember their names!
As I get older I find myself also using euphemisms like sister, as incipient Alzheimer's means I too cannot remember their names!
I think John uses "Nursey" as a windup and sure enough someone will rise to the bait!

Keep up the good work.

Saturday, June 28, 2008 7:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Times are moving forward and it is time for you to except...'

Didn't teach you how to spell though did it? Can you accept that?

Saturday, June 28, 2008 8:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Mr Ian said...

When I take my car for a tyre change - I expect the Ferrari team to roll out and get it done in 7 seconds.

I accept I am only paying for one apprentice guy to do a rather simple routine job.

Your argument against HPCs in mental health care is somewhat avoidant of the fact that mental illness is not a diagnosable medical disease and has no curative treatment.

I do agree that organic pathology needs to be ruled out and I weclome GP screening for such conditions. Of course, having done this before you referred to the CMHT, you'd be assured the condition was not a simply treated organic cause.

For any other condition, "treatment" offered by a doctor or psychiatrist is symptomatic at best (be that psychoses or neuroses).

Outside of prescriptions for dubious and controversial medications, what exactly is it that psychiatrists offer mentally compromised patients that an experienced other practitioner cannot?

In my community nursing I would spend average one hour per client to cover functional psychosocial issues that actually served to maintain the person out of hospital - kinda bedpanning in the community. I would discuss medical or complex issues with the psychiatrist as required; as I would discuss housing issues with a social worker, or functoinal disabilities with an occupational therapist. I did not require a medical review for every aspect of every patient and I did not need to report every aspect of each nursing assessment to a medic to then direct care.

In my 3 year mental health nurse training I covered enough to assess and treat cognitive and psychosocial issues to the limitation of my available tools. I also learned where and how to refer medical symptoms or medication issues.

Stop banging on about A levels and 7 years medical training - Mental health patients rarely require me to know all the bones in the foot or the average weight of a pancreas.

If you truly considered treatment of mental health being worthy of the utmost professional and medical training you would not be satisfied with GPs treating patients in the community either. They are but the Kwik-Fit apprentice tyre changers of the team.

Sunday, June 29, 2008 2:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Ruth said...

Mr Ian
I can agree that for some mental health patients healping them to sort out issues in their life, use techniques to manage anxiety, etc will be very helpful. However, I strongly believe from personal experience that some people need medication to tackle their issues.

My partner has bipolar. Lithium is the only thing that has ever made a real difference to her symptoms e.g. acute psychosis. You can not use social models to treat someone who is not in touch with reality.

She initially tried to "treat" her illness with a "therapist" who gave advice about how to make her life less stressful, good nutrition, etc. Although it helped her physical health, it made not one jot of difference to her cycles of severe depression and pschosis. Indeed the therapist who initially said he did not "believe" in medication, got so worried about her he phoned me without any prompting to say he was happy to speak to her GP about getting her sectioned.

Lithium has been like a magic wand. She still gets anxious about stressful situations, but she no longer has severe depression and psychosis.

Blog sites for people with bipolar are full of anecdotes such as this. So while I agree that the CMH model can work for people with depression, I strongly believe that it does not work for people with bipolar. These people need medical staff who are using a medical model.

Monday, June 30, 2008 12:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Mr Ian said...

Ruth,
I do not disagree and affective disorders is one of the conditions that medicinal interventions can prove immense benefit. Aside the fact that not even the neurologists know exactly how or why these medications work - nor indeed for whom of those with mood dysregulation the medications are indicated and that the introduction and titration of any of these major medications is a collaborative assessment and undertaken in a simple trial and error.

However, given the indications for a mood disorder, or a major psychoses, these would be the cases where I would expect a psychiatrist to take a lead role.

However, the number of people with such major psychoses is a minor proportion of those seeking mental health support.

These are the ones who would most benefit from a medical case management and, at the time of CMHT referral meetings, should be initially assigned to the psychiatrist rather than the social worker or the occupational therapist.

I could be brave and venture that an experienced nurse can assess to the point of diagnosis (and IME many shrinks still over-diagnose 'schizophrenia' in people who, eg, are having a 'psychotic episode') - and that same experienced nurse can predict to a 98% accuracy the clinical pathway the psychiatrist will take.

Personally I'd prefer such nurses to undertake more comprehensive assessment, diagnostic and treatment options training before engaging in Nurse Practitioner roles - but I don't see it as an impossible task.
I do think tho that it remains convenient to retain the more generalised background training of a medical practitioner and patient's under NPs should be closely supervised by a consultant or perhaps SpR for two years before engaging in autonomous practice - and even then for restricted roles (Community MDTs or Ward-based; never as an independent practitioner)

Monday, June 30, 2008 2:34:00 PM  
Anonymous E said...

"I think John uses "Nursey" as a windup and sure enough someone will rise to the bait!"

Whatever gives you greatest pleasure my dear.

Monday, June 30, 2008 6:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just wonder what this magical training is that these people undergo to make them so much better than the real doctors they are to replace.
flashlights rc helicopter video games

Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good article.Especially the above.We end up with a justice system again, where many innocent people are locked up again on the basis of an anonymous witness who may have a grudge financial interest etc in cooperating with the Police or whoever wants the defendant put away.
flashlights rc helicopter video games
Tactical Flashlights
HID Flashlight
Wolf-Eyes Flashlights
rc helicopter
helicopter
r c airplane
remote control
video game
PS2
PS3
Playstation 2

Thursday, July 10, 2008 7:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm getting confused as to who the nurses are and who the doctors are to be perfectly honest. I don't beleive that nurses should be 'prescribers' or 'practitioners' That is why there is a difference between Nursing (BSc Bedpan - love it!) and Medical School. In my view, the majority of the types of people who become nurses are those who were not quite clever enough to be doctors but a part of them still wants the power and ztatus of working in 'medicine' !! Most of them are lovely people, very caring and belong more in Nursing anyway, but quite a few of them have massive uncontrolled egos and secretly despise those who are doctors or are capable of becoming one should they choose to be. I once worked in such a mental health team and am also a 'service user' (Preferring 'patient'...)

I had probably the worst 2 years of my life working in that job in which I was undermined, treated with disrespect and frankly bullied by RMNs and other 'health professionals'in the 'team' I am a very clever (and rather beautiful!) woman, was a gifted child with a high IQ and could ahve been a doctor had I had the courage to cope with cutting up cadavers in training!! So I wanted to be a doctor of the mind - a psychologist. I was also interested in eventually going into neuroscience and don't mind cutting up brains at all.... Not hard to see why I was bullied by a whole lot of 'Nurseys"

I wasn't the only member of staff who was also an ex service user to experience this kind of treatment either - yep these RMNs were actually prejudiced towards the very people they were supposed to care about! I thought I would be working with caring people but i can honestly say they were the most vicous backstabbing people I have ever had to work with in my entire life. And they were sooo competitive! It was weird - you'd think they were working on a City trading floor! All women too.... Again not surprising at all... I'm a woman myself but give me male boss any day!! I have found that a hell of alot of women still cannot handle themselves professionally - they still insist on bringing their personal and home life to the workplace which includes being generally hysterical, forming cliques among workmates, excluding those who don't aren't interested in sleeping over after work (!) despising women like me who have the time and self respect to dress well put make up on and look nice, and blathering on and on about their kids at every flaming opportunity like they're the flippin Earth Mother Incarnate. Oh they know everything and are entitled to judge everybody else because...they ...are...Mothers!!!!Guess which industrial sectors have the most bitchiness and bullying in them and guess which sectors have the most psychosocial promoting women in them? Teaching, Nursing, Social Work, Charity Work and the general care sector.

I think the joint psychosocial and medical model works well, the holistic approach is beneficial. However the newfangled "new ways of working" approach seems to have had the result where my GP thinks my depression (for which I take medication and have done so for 8 years) is totally resolvable and I am expected to get better at some point. "The aim is for your depression to resolve" she says. HELLO? Like I have only had it for the past few months or something? I have a brain chemistry imbalance - when I don't take my meds I am not myself. My GP seems to think it is not a disability! Of course it is! I rely on medication to 'enable' me and have done for 8 years and expect to for many more to come! I don't want to, I'm only 29 and was only 21 when I started on them. I've put on 5 stone since 2001 because they are tricyclics and apparently mess around with ones metabolism, which I only found out last month. Wish someone had told me earlier, I've spent the past 8 years thinking I had an eating disorder and it was my own fault I seemed to put on weight so quickly and easily...I caqn literally gain a stone in about 2 weeks if I eat too many of the wrong things, I'm not kidding, it's flippin abnormal! My GP seems to think that I love being on the medication and that I might somehow not want the depressionto resolve. I wish it would! Then maybe I wouldn't turn into an irritable raging madwoman when I didn't take my meds and I go bakc to the size 16 I was before I had my breakdown at 21. Another doctor at the same practice referred me to a psychiatrist as he decided I might have a personality disorder and that is why I was bullied at work. Mainly because I answered him back in my consultation when he commented that if he had been my boss and I was such a know it all he would be irritated by me too!! (En quote!) Psychiatrist wrote back "No evidence of personality disorder. Patient has depression, continue medication" Thank you !!!

Needless to say I'm changing doctors....

I guess this has been a bit of a rant. But I identified with so much of your blog!! On one hand I think the team I worked in was a great concept for alot of patients and it did have plenty of psychiatrist input, plus most of our patients were on meds. HOwever the nursing profession is increasingly becoming full of careerists who are interested only in fastracking their way to management and supervisory positions, ticking assessment sheet boxes and getting themselves the status of doctors without having to put the work in.

I don't agree that nurses should prescribe nor should they be called 'consultants' About what exabtly? Most doctors are engaged in regular research and publishing papers like most high rankimg professionals/academics. I have never met a nurse yet who has published anything academic! They just do their vocational "CPD" most of them not out of natural inquisitiveness but because they would get knocked off the NMC register if they didn't!

Soon my dear Doc John it is not even going to be BSc Bedpan (the nursing assistants do that now...)but BSc RentaDoc!

Best Wishes,
Persephone79

Tuesday, October 07, 2008 5:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A片,A片,成人網站,成人影片,色情,情色網,情色,AV,AV女優,成人影城,成人,色情A片,日本AV,免費成人影片,成人影片,SEX,免費A片,A片下載,免費A片下載,做愛,情色A片,色情影片,H漫,A漫,18成人

a片,色情影片,情色電影,a片,色情,情色網,情色,av,av女優,成人影城,成人,色情a片,日本av,免費成人影片,成人影片,情色a片,sex,免費a片,a片下載,免費a片下載

情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣

A片,A片,A片下載,做愛,成人電影,.18成人,日本A片,情色小說,情色電影,成人影城,自拍,情色論壇,成人論壇,情色貼圖,情色,免費A片,成人,成人網站,成人圖片,AV女優,成人光碟,色情,色情影片,免費A片下載,SEX,AV,色情網站,本土自拍,性愛,成人影片,情色文學,成人文章,成人圖片區,成人貼圖

情色,AV女優,UT聊天室,聊天室,A片,視訊聊天室

一夜情聊天室,一夜情,情色聊天室,情色,美女交友,交友,AIO交友愛情館,AIO,成人交友,愛情公寓,做愛影片,做愛,性愛,微風成人區,微風成人,嘟嘟成人網,成人影片,成人,成人貼圖,18成人,成人圖片區,成人圖片,成人影城,成人小說,成人文章,成人網站,成人論壇,情色貼圖,色情貼圖,色情A片,A片,色情小說,情色小說,情色文學,寄情築園小遊戲, 情色A片,色情影片,AV女優,AV,A漫,免費A片,A片下載

Thursday, February 12, 2009 4:16:00 AM  
Blogger 夕阳栖下 said...

百家乐 轮盘 21点 德州扑克 百家乐系统 真人娱乐场 百家乐 足球 德州扑克 电子游戏 英格兰超级联赛 德国甲组联赛 意大利甲组联赛 西班牙甲组联赛 法国甲组联赛欧冠杯 英超 足球比分 足球彩票 体育彩票 即时比分 免費a片 a片 免費av 色情影片 情色 情色網 色情網站 色情 成人網 成人圖片 成人影片 18成人 av av女優 av av女優 情慾 走光 做愛 sex H漫 情色 情趣用品 情色 a片 a片 成人網站 成人影片 情趣用品 情趣用品 アダルト アダルト アダルトサイト アダルトサイト 情趣用品

Thursday, March 05, 2009 3:39:00 AM  
Blogger jordan said...

好用的情趣用品增加生活情趣用品全在愛你喔情趣用品不買可惜情趣用品令您幸福情趣用品非常可愛情趣用品變成大富人情趣用品快速


秉持先打坐情趣用品,再打鼓的理念情趣用品,使優劇場脫胎情趣用品,換骨為結合打鼓情趣用品,打坐與打拳三元素的風格情趣用品,獨特表演藝術團體。


妻為此失情趣用品,和分居。她說情趣用品,每次繳交自己情趣用品,消費金額時,行方都按正情趣用品,附卡的消費比例沖帳,導致一直積欠款項情趣用品,行方且不向正卡人催討欠帳,反轉向


現煮的香醇熱咖情趣用品,啡,方便咖啡情趣用品,族解癮,但卻情趣用品,被消基會逮到悄悄縮水情趣用品,調查樣本中超過半數的熱咖啡容量裝不滿8成情趣用品,形同變相漲價。


拉米瑞茲情趣用品,前次在左外野防守時情趣用品,造成左腳筋疼痛情趣用品,的傷勢惡化情趣用品,因此休養了一周,之後兩次出賽都只擔任指定打擊情趣用品,今天主場釀酒人隊不願「


星光大道唱歌教學教室,蔡依琳唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,王建民唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,王建民黃金回收林志玲黃金價格吳宗憲黃金價格顯示板柯林頓外勞小叮噹人力仲介情人節看護買東西人力仲介美女看護 ,外籍新娘,大陸新娘,越南新娘,大陸新娘,越南新娘,外籍新娘,整形手術,五爪拉皮,內視鏡拉皮,無刀近視雷射,豐胸林口自體脂肪移植,果凍隆乳增加生果凍矽膠優劇場脫淨膚雷射,柔膚雷射,雷射溶脂,雷射引流抽脂帥哥冷觸雷射溶脂型男水刀雕脂師大水刀抽脂,冷觸溶脂,溶脂雕塑,局部抽脂,傳統抽脂,抽脂雕塑,改運整型,無痛隆鼻伊美內視鏡隆乳水噹噹隆乳手術,飛梭雷射族解癮,但二代飛梭方便咖啡飛梭治療,玻尿酸豐胸,電波拉皮大美女除皺正妹美形士林夜市整形論壇古亭臉部整形,身體整形,牙齒整形,雷射整形,美容整形,整形診所,整形外科,縮唇台北豐唇台中美白,美容,

阿勞斯;其他入酒店經紀六日晚間為酒店經紀他入榜的還酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差本和台灣一直維持著一酒店兼差,年齡最大的則是酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工法國總統的賀雅爾暫酒店上班模出身的酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班發表您的看酒店上班態度,老實說轉變的太大了前些酒店上班,酒店上班可能會帶點政治色彩酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班,暑假打工,暑假打工,暑假打工,暑假打工,暑假打工女模的義大利平暑假打工,暑假打工昂豔冠群芳暑假打工,寒假打工,寒假打工,美容整形,整形,雷射美容,臉部整形,雷射整形,整形外科,微整形,醫學美容,臉部整形,雷射整形,整形外科,微整形,醫學美容,臉部整形,微整形,美形,身體整形月收增加 4-8萬,又美容整形,美容,雷射美容,美形,身體整形,美容整形,美容,整形手術,美形,身體整形,整形手術,整形論壇,牙齒整形,整形診所,整形,整形論壇,牙齒整形,整形診所,整形,雷射美容班牙政壇入選者整形論壇,整形診所,

Friday, March 27, 2009 12:26:00 PM  
Blogger xzxz16 said...

大方室內設計公司提供專業的室內設計服務及空間設計服務,若需要請來電洽詢。


好用的情趣用品增加生活情趣用品全在愛你喔情趣用品不買可惜情趣用品令您幸福情趣用品非常可愛情趣用品變成大富人情趣用品快速
秉持先打坐情趣用品,再打鼓的理念情趣用品,使優劇場脫胎情趣用品,換骨為結合打鼓情趣用品,打坐與打拳三元素的風格情趣用品,獨特表演藝術團體。
妻為此失情趣用品,和分居。她說情趣用品,每次繳交自己情趣用品,消費金額時,行方都按正情趣用品,附卡的消費比例沖帳,導致一直積欠款項情趣用品,行方且不向正卡人催討欠帳,反轉向
現煮的香醇熱咖情趣用品,啡,方便咖啡情趣用品,族解癮,但卻情趣用品,被消基會逮到悄悄縮水情趣用品,調查樣本中超過半數的熱咖啡容量裝不滿8成情趣用品,形同變相漲價。
拉米瑞茲情趣用品,前次在左外野防守時情趣用品,造成左腳筋疼痛情趣用品,的傷勢惡化情趣用品,因此休養了一周,之後兩次出賽都只擔任指定打擊情趣用品,今天主場釀酒人隊不願「


星光大道唱歌教學教室,蔡依琳唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,王建民唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌教學教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,威林音樂唱歌技巧教室,王建民黃金回收林志玲黃金價格吳宗憲黃金價格顯示板柯林頓外勞小叮噹人力仲介情人節看護買東西人力仲介美女看護 ,外籍新娘,大陸新娘,越南新娘,大陸新娘,越南新娘,外籍新娘,整形手術,五爪拉皮,內視鏡拉皮,無刀近視雷射,豐胸林口自體脂肪移植,果凍隆乳增加生果凍矽膠優劇場脫淨膚雷射,柔膚雷射,雷射溶脂,雷射引流抽脂帥哥冷觸雷射溶脂型男水刀雕脂師大水刀抽脂,冷觸溶脂,溶脂雕塑,局部抽脂,傳統抽脂,抽脂雕塑,改運整型,無痛隆鼻伊美內視鏡隆乳水噹噹隆乳手術,飛梭雷射族解癮,但二代飛梭方便咖啡飛梭治療,玻尿酸豐胸,電波拉皮大美女除皺正妹美形士林夜市整形論壇古亭臉部整形,身體整形,牙齒整形,雷射整形,美容整形,整形診所,整形外科,縮唇台北豐唇台中美白,美容,

阿勞斯;其他入酒店經紀六日晚間為酒店經紀他入榜的還酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差本和台灣一直維持著一酒店兼差,年齡最大的則是酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店兼差,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工,酒店打工法國總統的賀雅爾暫酒店上班模出身的酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班發表您的看酒店上班態度,老實說轉變的太大了前些酒店上班,酒店上班可能會帶點政治色彩酒店上班,酒店上班,酒店上班,暑假打工,暑假打工,暑假打工,暑假打工,暑假打工女模的義大利平暑假打工,暑假打工昂豔冠群芳暑假打工,寒假打工,寒假打工,美容整形,整形,雷射美容,臉部整形,雷射整形,整形外科,微整形,醫學美容,臉部整形,雷射整形,整形外科,微整形,醫學美容,臉部整形,微整形,美形,身體整形月收增加 4-8萬,又美容整形,美容,雷射美容,美形,身體整形,美容整形,美容,整形手術,美形,身體整形,整形手術,整形論壇,牙齒整形,整形診所,整形,整形論壇,牙齒整形,整形診所,整形,雷射美容班牙政壇入選者整形論壇,整形診所,

Wednesday, April 01, 2009 7:17:00 AM  

Post a Comment

Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home

DR CRIPPEN'S DIARY

Dr John Crippen's weekly diary. The trials and tribulations, the pleasures and pitfalls of family medicine in the modern British National Health Service.

Powered by WebRing.


Add to My AOL ATOM

Number of online users in last 3 minutes
used cars
Top of the British Blogs Health Blogs - Blog Top Sites  View My Public Stats on MyBlogLog.com Locations of visitors to this page

Powered by Blogger

DK Enhanced

View blog top tags Healthcare 100

Web Hosting Uptime Monitor

    Best Medical Weblog

    Best Literary Medical Weblog

    Best Health Policies/Ethics Medical Weblog

    Google

Powered by Blogger

Subscribe to
Posts [Atom]

View blog authority

-->