The Nazi Midwives
As regular readers know, last week Dr Crippen wrote to Helen O’Dell of the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) about Virginia Howes who is an independent midife in Kent. Virginia is now also a pseudo-blogger. She has a blog but, unlike real bloggers, she uses her blog to tell you what she thinks without allowing you to tell her what you think.
Virginia Howes states on her pseudo-blog that she has been commended by Helen O’Dell of the NMC for her management of a high risk home birth. Most doctors and, I suspect, most midwives were not happy with the management of this case but that management has been sanctioned, indeed commended, by Helen O’Dell of the NMC. Or so Virginia puts it to her cosy interlocutor:
Did you have any further discussions about this case with your Supervisor? Did she review the case? Were any issues raised about your practice?Dr Crippen has now emailed Helen O’Dell of the NMC twice, asking her to confirm that the NMC really has commended Virginia’s management of the case. So far there has been no reply. There has, however, been a pubic statement from the NMC saying, inter alia :
As I put this story on my website and it was unusual, it was drawn to the attention of my supervisor and the LSO, Helen Odell, and quite rightly procedure was followed whereby the case notes were reviewed. The case notes demonstrated a much fuller picture than the brief story which was originally put online. I was commended for the care I gave.
Kent Midwifery Pseudo-blog
Social networking sites Used properly, social networking sites such as Facebook are a great way to find old friends, join interest groups and share information. However, nurses and midwives should remember that anything posted on a social networking site is in the public domain.The plot thickens. Readers will recall the critical and unprofessional remarks that Virginia Howes made about her midwifery and medical colleagues. How can the NMC commend her for this? I await Helen O’Dell’s reply.
What may be considered to be letting off steam about a situation at work can potentially be read by someone who may take offence at the content of a posting. Nurses and midwives could be putting their registration at risk if posting inappropriate comments about colleagues or patients or posting any material that could be considered explicit.
The NMC also unwisely dips its toes in the moral maze surrounding membership of the British National Party. They say:
Following the recent publication of the membership of the British National Party (BNP), the NMC would like to remind nurses and midwives that while you are free to join the BNP which is a lawful political party, as part of your Code of Conduct you must demonstrate a personal and professional commitment to equality and diversity.You stupid, stupid, ignorant bloody women. This is one for Bertrand Russell, not for you. The clash between moral absolutes is an insoluble problem for all liberal democracies. Liberty. Freedom of speech. Racism. The seeds of a neo-Nazi party. I hate the holocaust deniers, and I hate the laws in Germany and Austria. I am glad we do not have them here. But this is not an “A” level ethics question. It is real life. OK girls, you may join the BNP. This is how it starts. This is how it started from the embers of the Weimar Republic. Go home and read the Diary of Anne Frank.
The NMC does not forbid anyone on the register from being a member of any lawful political party or organisation. However, your fitness to practise could be called into question if you allow your political views or personal beliefs to contribute to behaviour that was contrary to your Code.
Nursing and Midwifery Council
Difficult political and philosophical issues like this have nothing to do with day to day midwifery. It is indicative of the intellect of the top end of the midwifery hierarchy that they should conjoin a crass statement sanctioning their members to join the BNP with advice about behaviour on Facebook and blogs.
The current position of the NMC is that midwives may join the British National Party but they must behave themselves on Facebook. Dear God, give me strength.
They should have kept their mouth shut. As should Virginia Howes. And I still await a reply from Helen O'Dell.
Labels: Kent midwifery practice, madwives, NMC, Virgina Howes
35 Comments:
Oh dear, Godwin's law in action yet again...
Does this mean that medical doctors are actually forbidden by their regulatory body (in your case, the GMC) from joining the BNP then? The police? Teachers?
No?
Oh- does that make them stupid bloody ignorant women then?
I'm not comfortable with the thought of BNP members holding positions of public trust, but I'm far less comfortable with the idea of judging people by the thoughts in their head; that too is a slippery slope towards a totalitarianism of a kind no better than what the BNP's spiritual ancestors preached under Oswald Mosley.
Such individuals should be credited with the ability to keep their personal feelings from interfering with the execution of their duty until and unless they prove themselves incapable of it.
"They (the NMC) should have kept their mouth shut".
But surely regulators of a professional body like the GMC, for example, is put in a difficult position when x2 doctors try to blow up Glasgow airport, crimes motivated by extreme political and religious ideology ?
The BNP are but one organisation symbolising intolerance and hatred, although patients can be exploited in a number of other ways (financial, psychological, etc).
Despite these dangers isn't it a basic principle of justice that any crime or mistreatment is dealt with on a case by case basis ?
I think Jake (above) is spot on.
I don’t know if you really understand Godwin’s “law” when you make that statement. It is worth reading if up. There is an excellent summary of it on Wikipedia, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law
Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1]is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the reductio ad Hitlerum form.
The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact. Although in one of its early forms Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet discussions,the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion, electronic mailing lists , chat rooms , and more recently blog comment threads and talk pages.
+++++++++
On this occasion, this is not a case of the analogy being drawn after a long internet discussion. The analogy is made immediately in the article. It is the first time I have made such an analogy.
Like you (I assume) I detest the inappropriate use of comparisons to Hitler’s Germany, the “reductio ad Hitlerum”. However, the rise of the BNP is horrifying, absolutely horrifying and. It is very worrying indeed that there ARE valid comparisons with the rise of extremist parties in Weimar Germany in the 1920’s. Not least the fact that currently we have the worst economic crisis since the 1920s/1930s and very soon we will be looking for scapegoats. Immigrant scapegoats. And don’t forget Oswald Mosley’s blackshirts in the UK.
The NMC should have said nothing. A bland statement that it is “OK for their members to join the BNP is appalling”. Why have they not condemned the BNP and everything it stands for?
John
Anonymous said...
Does this mean that medical doctors are actually forbidden by their regulatory body (in your case, the GMC) from joining the BNP then? The police? Teachers?
No?
Oh- does that make them stupid bloody ignorant women then?
Monday, November 24, 2008 7:37:00 AM
+++++++++
The police have already banned membership of the BNP (rightly or wrongly) and no that does not make them stupid women.
As far as I know the NUT etc has not issued a policy but I would be appalled if they said that teachers are "free to join the BNP". Similarly the BMA.
The NMN should have said nothing.
John
Jake said...
I'm not comfortable with the thought of BNP members holding positions of public trust, but I'm far less comfortable with the idea of judging people by the thoughts in their head; that too is a slippery slope towards a totalitarianism of a kind no better than what the BNP's spiritual ancestors preached under Oswald Mosley.
Such individuals should be credited with the ability to keep their personal feelings from interfering with the execution of their duty until and unless they prove themselves incapable of it.
+++++++
I agree. I hate the idea of thought crimes as well.
But do you thing a nursing/midwifery organisation should EMPHASISE that it is OK for their members to join the BNP? I would rather they issued a policy condemning the BNP.
John
I cannot see anything in the NMC statement to the effect that it is "OK" for members to join the BNP, perhaps you are suggesting that there is a tacit acceptance (by the NMC) that the views of the BNP are not so bad ?
The statement simply points out "the NMC does not forbid anyone on the register from being a member of any LAWFUL political party or organisation".
So the NMC position is that a person is entitled to hold certain (political or religious views) even if other may find them abhorrent PROVIDING said views do not conflict with the code of practice.
In short, you either endorse the view that we should punish thought crime, or you don't (as I see it).
The BNP may be deeply unpleasant but at least they haven't blown up any airports recently, neither have they prosecuted an illegal war.
WHO CAN JOIN THE BNP?
Police and prison officers: Banned
Council and NHS employees: Not banned but would be disciplined if beliefs interfered with job
Doctors: Must not allow beliefs to compromise care or attempt to impose political views on patients
Nurses: Not forbidden but code of conduct requires commitment to equality and diversity
Teachers: Membership of political parties must not compromise professional conduct
Union members: Under new laws BNP members could be expelled if judged to be incompatible with the union's beliefs
Armed forces personnel: Not explicitly banned but personnel are barred from political activity or demonstration
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7736794.stm
So, DOCTORS are not prevented by the GMC from joining the BNP if they so wish?
By Crippen's logic, this makes them stupid, bloody ignorant women (Yes, I know, some midwives are male - another reason why Crippen's generalisations are so irritating).
Regulatory bodies and employers have a duty to clarify their positions without forcing unreasonable demands onto members/employers or imposing on their human rights to free speech.
My point is, the midwives' regulatory body had to clarify their position- it was perfectly sensible.
I note Crippen did NOT mention the GMC's stance on legal BNP membership, even though asked. This is because that example blows his argument out of the water. The GMC are unlikely to be forbidding membership of the legal BNP.
I am wholly against everything the BNP stands for, by the way.
As regards Godwins Law- it is the fact that Crippen has used a perfectly reasonable action on the part of the midwives' regulatory body, as an ad hominem attack against them, for something else he thinks they are wrong about: "Ooh- look, they won't answer my (questionable) gripes, but they'll allow Nazi Midwives".
That is Godwin's law (imperfect and illogical as Godwin's maths is): and Crippen's 'critiques' of Midwives have been going on for a long time now.
Hi anonymous:
So, DOCTORS are not prevented by the GMC from joining the BNP if they so wish?
I don’t know if the GMC has issued specific guidance. I saw this in the Torygraph today:
“The British Medical Association, the doctors' professional body, does not ask medics if they belong to the BNP while mere membership of the party is unlikely to lead to a doctor being struck off by the General Medical Council.
Doctors who are also active BNP campaigners could face disciplinary action for going against GMC guidance that states they must not express personal political beliefs "in ways that are likely to cause patients distress".
I don’t think that people should be asked which political party they are a member of , BUT BUT I would hate the GMC of BNP to say specifically that doctors may join the BNP. And they have not, to my knowledge, said that. Any such statement lends credibility to the BNP. I would prefer them to say that they disagree with the BNP and hope that doctors will NOT join it.
By Crippen's logic, this makes them stupid, bloody ignorant women (Yes, I know, some midwives are male - another reason why Crippen's generalisations are so irritating).
It would indeed make them stupid, stupid ignorant men and women had they issued such a statement. As to male midwives, well, yes sort of, but they are deeply discriminated against by the midwifery profession and have difficulty getting training or work. But that is a side issue
Regulatory bodies and employers have a duty to clarify their positions without forcing unreasonable demands onto members/employers or imposing on their human rights to free speech.
Actually, they do NOT have a duty to “clarify” their position on political parties. They DO have a duty to supervise the professional behaviour of their members. I am sure it is possible for a fascist to be a good midwife, or a good doctor.
My point is, the midwives' regulatory body had to clarify their position- it was perfectly sensible.
I diaagree. They would have been better to say nothing. But, if they were going to say something, they could have made clear their disapproval of the BNP. You have to stand up and be counted on these sort of insidious politics. Remember Niemoeller:
In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak
I note Crippen did NOT mention the GMC's stance on legal BNP membership, even though asked. This is because that example blows his argument out of the water. The GMC are unlikely to be forbidding membership of the legal BNP.
I don’t know what the GMC stance is, other than above. Do let me know if you do. If they have been as stupid as the midwives and said “Doctors are FREE to join the BNP…” then I would be equally critical of them.
I am wholly against everything the BNP stands for, by the way.
As regards Godwins Law- it is the fact that Crippen has used a perfectly reasonable action on the part of the midwives' regulatory body, as an ad hominem attack against them,
No. “ad hominen” means an attack against a specific person, not against an institution.
for something else he thinks they are wrong about: "Ooh- look, they won't answer my (questionable) gripes, but they'll allow Nazi Midwives".
Don’t understand. The only question I have asked is whether Helen O’Dell, a senior midwife and representative of the NMN will verify that she did indeed commend the independent midwife’s unusual treatment of a high risk pregnancy. That’s all.
That is Godwin's law (imperfect and illogical as Godwin's maths is):
It is rather imperfect, I agree, but nonetheless useful. I hate trivial arguments that degenerate into the “that is worse than Nazi Germany…” But a critique of the BNP is not such an argument. This is a party that wants to pay British citizens, many of whom were born in this country, to “return” (sic) to their country of ethnic origin. It is a party that is scapegoating a sizeable minority of our population. It is an extreme right wing party that is getting more and more traction based on prejudice, just as the extremist parties did in Weimar Germany. We need to be unequivocal and robust (God, I hate that word!) in our condemnation of this sort of extremism
and Crippen's 'critiques' of Midwives have been going on for a long time now.
True. But it is not of ALL midwives. It is merely of the lunatic fringe of midwifery. I particularly worry about the midwives who take unnecessary risks with mothers and babies in pursuit of their absolutist beliefs in home deliveries.
John
The BNP has the same legal rights to existence as does Nulabor and all other political parties in a democracy.
Do you envisage private and confidential data pertaining to Freemasons to be accessed in line with that alleged with BNP ? MP's of various parties called for enquirieis into masonic links with the closed shop, profitable PFI's.
Multi billions have been borrowed against taxpayers in the process.
..and Crippen's 'critiques' of Midwives have been going on for a long time now.
"True. But it is not of ALL midwives. It is merely of the lunatic fringe of midwifery. I particularly worry about the midwives who take unnecessary risks with mothers and babies in pursuit of their absolutist beliefs in home deliveries... "
Which is a totally different subject to 'Nazi Midwives' (your own words!). You've used an emotive term and unrelated issue to try and discredit midwives and their regulatory body.
"...I don’t think that people should be asked which political party they are a member of , BUT BUT I would hate the GMC of BNP to say specifically that doctors may join the BNP. And they have not, to my knowledge, said that. Any such statement lends credibility to the BNP. I would prefer them to say that they disagree with the BNP and hope that doctors will NOT join it..."
So the GMC are to be COMMENDED for not saying anything at all (therefore leaving people in confusion), and the midwives linked with Nazism and an unfounded implication that they are ENCOURAGING fascism, because they have come out and said the bleeding obvious ("you're free to join the BNP", which is true)?
"...No. “ad hominen” means an attack against a specific person, not against an institution... "
Actually, it means an attack against the weakest argument (or a misrepresentation of one part of an argument) of an opponent. As you must surely know, opponents can come in groups. It's a known logical fallacy, the 'to the man' is latin- but is not meant to be taken completely literally.
"...It is rather imperfect, I agree, but nonetheless useful. I hate trivial arguments that degenerate into the “that is worse than Nazi Germany…” But a critique of the BNP is not such an argument. This is a party that wants to pay British citizens, many of whom were born in this country, to “return” (sic) to their country of ethnic origin. It is a party that is scapegoating a sizeable minority of our population. It is an extreme right wing party that is getting more and more traction based on prejudice, just as the extremist parties did in Weimar Germany. We need to be unequivocal and robust (God, I hate that word!) in our condemnation of this sort of extremism... "
Excuse me but you have just demonstrated exactly why yours is a Godwin's law argument. You are comparing BNP to Nazis (when they are facists), and then use the term 'Nazi Midwives', (Nazi is a specifically historical term) in your title, in order to slag off the reasonable actions of their regulatory body in reminding their members that they can't stop them from joining the BNP (true) but they must still act ethically (also true). You can have facists in all walks of life (and yes, facist physicians and surgeons, which the GMC well know) - but you want to talk about 'Nazi' midwives because they dare clarify an issue while not dealing with your particular preoocupations about homebirths.
You are conflating two disparate subjects (and grossly misrepresenting the Midwives- though I've noticed you've backpedalled somewhat) in order to discredit them because you have problems with the home birth issue.
"My point is, the midwives' regulatory body had to clarify their position- it was perfectly sensible.
...I diaagree. They would have been better to say nothing. But, if they were going to say something, they could have made clear their disapproval of the BNP. You have to stand up and be counted on these sort of insidious politics. Remember Niemoeller:
In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. etc..."
Well, by your logic, the GMC are also to be castigated roundly by yourself. After all, they too have neglected to stand up and be counted, and say they are against the BNP and disapprove of any doctor that joins the BNP. I shall expect your castigation of the GMC in your next blog post, shall I? Indeed, anyone who hasn't come out publicly and said the BNP is bad, and anyone who joins them is bad, should be castigated by you, by your own vow stated here. You're going to have a long list of people to castigate there, even if you just start with the public bodies.
You’re way off beam on this one, Dr C.
The statement that the NMC has issued is an apolitical one stating the legal position; the statement you would have them issue is a political one which would be inappropriate for a regulatory body.
If they had come out and condemned a political party – ANY political party – then surely there would be a outcry about how inappropriate a role it was for a professional regulatory body to be making political statements?
The bottom line of your argument is that it’s OK for a professional body to make a political statement as long as it’s one with which you’re in agreement?
Hmm, well of course you’re entitled to your personal opinion, as are we all, but you attempts to make a broader point fail to convince.
anonymous,
you do like the word castigate don't you! maybe time to invest in a thesaurus? actually perhaps you are already an avid user of the thesaurus as you seem to be continually scraping the barrel for the most impressive sounding words you can find.
I really don't think this is off beam. The BNP scares the hell out of me and, if you look at historical precedent, the current situation in this country is ripe for the BNP to take off. It is essential that we take a firm and unequivocal stand against them. It is not acceptable for respected professional bodies to say it is OK for their members to join the BNP. It is not OK. Any policy statement regarding the BNP should condemn them out of hand. And to make such a statement and juxtapose it with remarks about Facebook trivialises the issue beyond belief.
John
"...you do like the word castigate don't you! maybe time to invest in a thesaurus? actually perhaps you are already an avid user of the thesaurus as you seem to be continually scraping the barrel for the most impressive sounding words you can find."
Oh good grief. Is that the best rebuttal you've got? I'm too wordy and used a verb more than once? You do realise that's an exemplary ad hominem, don't you? Maybe not?
"...And to make such a statement and juxtapose it with remarks about Facebook trivialises the issue beyond belief..."
No- the 'facebook' comments are guidance. Facebook is a potential avenue of misconduct for professionals (even unwittingly). All sorts of new communications technology etc. are throwing up more issues for which guidance may be needed. I understand even medical doctors use facebook (shock horror!)
In this case, the Midwives' regulatory body are trying to clarify a serious issue, and you were trying to use it to score points against them, for which you've been justifiably critiqued.
You should really give this one up.
anonymous 3.17pm,
It wasn't intended as a rebuttal. Did I say I didn't agree with what you're saying? Some (not all) of your points are perfectly valid. Although it is sometimes difficult to see your point as one gets distracted by having to wade through all the unnecessarily pretentious words. It is irritating when people do this.
Not as irritating as someone making pointless remarks about a commentators prose (rather than the issues in hand).
Personally I think our wordy anonymous contributor makes valid and easily understood points - I agree with a great deal of what he (for it is almost certainly a he) says.
"...Not as irritating as someone making pointless remarks about a commentators prose (rather than the issues in hand).
Personally I think our wordy anonymous contributor makes valid and easily understood points - I agree with a great deal of what he (for it is almost certainly a he) says."
Actually I'm a she! Not a midwife though.
Apologies anonymous - your points are still very well made though ;o)
‘It is not acceptable for respected professional bodies to say it is OK for their members to join the BNP. It is not OK.’
Dr C, you seem to take this statement of fact (BNP is a legal political party, therefore not against the law to be a member) as some kind of tacit approval of membership. I genuinely don’t read it that way.
Would you perhaps concede that your personal views are colouring how you read this factual statement?
Would you say the same about, say, the Communist Party? If so, fair enough, you’re against any form of political extremism. I’m with you on that one.
If not, though, all you’re really doing is stating your personal opinion. Of course, you’re perfectly entitled to do that – your blog after all! – but you haven’t really proven your wider case against the NMC.
"As to male midwives, well, yes sort of, but they are deeply discriminated against by the midwifery profession and have difficulty getting training or work. But that is a side issue"
Simply not true. Male midwives are in fact disproportionately represented in senior management and educational roles, considering the number of them on the register. My understanding is also that male applicants are snapped up.
I do believe that the NMC should, like the police, ban BNP members from being on the register. But seeing as how it is the NURSING and Midwifery Council, and the vast majority of registrants are nurses, I fail to see why you have made this a specifically midwifery issue, other than due to your raging and irrational hatred of midwives.
"You stupid, stupid, ignorant bloody women."
The NMC are all women, are they? You claim not to be a misogynist, yet your post frequently ooze misogyny.
Dr Crippen,
Are you suggesting nurses and midwives should be prohibited from joining a particular political group?
Would you care to elaborate on the spectrum of political opinion you consider acceptable for a midwife to hold?
*This* is how Germany descended into dictatorship. It certainly was not because a handful of midwives joined the NSDAP.
George Orwell is pissing himself in his grave.
John,
NMC (love the NMN acronym you ascribe tho! And I'm sure it's no slip) is totally right to do this - because it was called for in direct response to "why are nurses allowed to join such a party?" question that was raised in the public domain after the leakage. The NMC is making ITS regulatory stance clear that it cannot and ought not intervene. It is not condoning anyone doing anything other than being a professional Nurse or Midwife. It simply has no legal power to discriminate. If they did - they'd be wide open for political discrimination.
If you have such an issue then by all means lobby to outlaw the BNP; however that's done.
Why did we never oppose membership of Sinn Fein in the same way in the 70-80s?
Personally, I think the majority of doctors are a bunch of arrogant whingers who aren't fit to be responsible for the welfare of individuals and do not deserve the level of trust that is imparted from the public to them; and the GMC is an old boys network rife with nepotism, bullying and tyrannical medical allegiance over those they allege to care about. They should be disbanded.
But that won't stop me working professionally with ya John and following your prescriptions (as long as they withstand my clinical ethico legal scrutiny).
I don't know the current 'activist' status of the BNP members or whether there is a statistical difference between unlawful racist behaviours with BNP members than the rest of the population (which doesn't just mean white racists). Any stats would be great if anyone has them?
But if we're going to continue on this 'tarred with the same brush' approach that you adore - you'll be wanting to ban all the Muslims and mosques too eh? Damned fundamentalists.
Council estate kids too. They can go. Bloody troublemakers.
Oops... actually Thatcher got rid of those already didn't she ... well, their council homes at least.
Dr Crippen is making a fool of himself. I dislike the BNP and everything it stands for BUT this is a free society (although substantially less so since NuLabour came to power) and the Human Rights act as well as British Common law contains the right of free association. The NMC statement is completely appropriate and states the law of the land.
The consequence of the NMC or the GMC making political statements about the appropriateness or otherwise of BNP membership would be that there are a lot of other legal parties out there with equally obnoxious policies which would also need to be dealt with, RESPECT, the Socialist Workers Party for example.
The solution to the BNP is to either proscribe them as a legitimate party or to get out there and make the case against them.
No one in this country, especially those as respected as as the good Doctor John, should barge off in the direction of sanctions for thought crimes.
Arthur
You have missed the point or, at any rate, missed my point. I am with you entirely on the evils of the BNP and also on the appalling idea of prosecuting someone for thought crimes. As I have already said, I hate the holocaust deniers but I also hate the laws that some countries have making holocaust denial a crime.
If the Midwifery Organisations want to go on the record about the BNP - and it might have been better to have maintained a dignified silence - then they should have made it unequivocally clear that, whilst they cannot prevent midwives joining the BNP, they are utterly opposed to the policies of the BNP. By appearing to be disinterested, and saying that midwives are free to join they are - whatever you may say - appearing to give a degree of tacit approval to the BNP. And that is terrible. I think all the professions should make it clear that they are implacably opposed to BNP politics
John
I don't think anyone here has 'missed your point'.
Some just found your argument 'wanting' - shall we say...
No one’s missed your point, Dr C, we just don’t agree with it!
‘They should have made it unequivocally clear that, whilst they cannot prevent midwives joining the BNP, they are utterly opposed to the policies of the BNP’
No, they really shouldn’t have, because then they’d be making political statements that they have no business making.
‘By appearing to be disinterested, and saying that midwives are free to join they are - whatever you may say - appearing to give a degree of tacit approval to the BNP’
No they aren’t. And the fact that you read it like that says more about your personal politics than it does about the MNC statement.
Give it up. You’re wrong.
Rob Clark I couldn't have put it better
Arthur, you could, you could have spelt NMC correctly, unlike me! lol
Everyone keeps saying "midwives regulatory body", just because Dr. Crippen has a "thing" about midwives. It is actually the Nursing and Midwifery Council, and the overwhelming majority of its registrants are Nurses. A very large proportion are male.
According to "Godwin's law"
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 100%."
Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the reductio ad Hitlerum form and is generally taken as an admission that once such a comparison has been made the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis first has automatically "lost"
On another note according to Womans' hour 20% of pregnancies managed in hospital by Doctors are induced when the pregnancy exceeds 42 weeks. As opposed to just 2% of similar pregnancies that are supervised at home by independent midwives.
Dr Crippen,
I don't know if you remember a blog by a student nurse called "Faith Walker", but it appears that her blog was seen as bringing nursing into disrepute and may not be cleared for registration by the NMC- its serious (but possibly an overreaction?).
On the other hand, she would have been safe had she only joined the BNP!
Ridiculous!
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