More suicides in Switzerland
I was sorry to hear this morning that Sir Edward Thomas Downes, CBE, has died at the age of 85. I was sorry to hear that his wife, Lady Joan Downes has died at the age of 74.
The trendy, left-wing teenagers who dominate the BBC treated this news in a way that signified their approval of Sir Edward and Lady Downes' mode of death. Even ageing John Humphreys, who will not see 60 again, indulged in some gratuitous euphemism. Sir Edward and Lady Downes did not "pass away". They committed suicide. Most worryingly, there was no mention of the fact that Lady Downes was only 74. Why did she want to die?
Let us not beat about the bush. I repeat, Sir Edward and Lady Downes committed suicide. They travelled to Switzerland to visit those macabre killers at Dignitas and obtain from them a service that is illegal in the UK.
If people want to committ suicide, that is a matter for them. But please do not ask me as, a doctor, to help. I will not have anything to do it. Above all, let us not dress up what Dignitas does by shrouding their activities in bogus cliches. Sir Edward and Lady Downes did not, as the BBC styled it on the radio this morning, "pass away". They committed suicide.
Read the report on the BBC here. We are told nothing about Lady Downes other than that she was her husband's "personal assistant". What patronising fuckwittery. If I styled Mrs Crippen as my "personal assistant" I would not need to visit Dignitas. Maybe, though, we are moving to a system favoured by the Egyption Pharohs, who had their slaves entombed with them so that they could be of service in the after life.
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More great legal cartoons at Stu's Views
Labels: assisted suicide, biased bbc, dignitas
38 Comments:
I believe Lady Downes had terminal cancer, and her husband simply couldn't bear to live without her... What a beautiful love story.
It would help if you got your facts right "Doctor" (?!).
Agreed with what the reply above said: you only need to do a brief search, after all, to find out more about their conditions prior to this decision: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/5823704/Conductor-Sir-Edward-Downes-and-wife-end-lives-at-Dignitas-clinic.html
I respect your reluctance as a doctor to assist with suicide. But your central point about euphemisms is negated by your own use of value-laden language to describe what happened here.
People "commit" crimes - and suicide is not a crime. You may abhor the idea of voluntary euthanasia, but don't kid yourself that by insisting on calling it "committing suicide" you are bravely telling it like it is. You too are using emotive, tendentious language which reflects your strong opinion on the subject.
As the two commenters above pointed out, you expressed that opinion strongly in this post without first acquainting yourself with the facts.
Uncharacteristically poor show.
I've solved the problem of who is to do the bumping off once all this is legal here, since doctors - quite rightly - shouldn't. Use struck-off doctors - they've presumably got the technical skill required.
"Use struck-off doctors". Hmm. I have had the idea for years that doctors and veterinary surgeons who attempt suicide and fail should be struck off for incompetence.
Mr Downes was blind and Mrs Downes had terminal cancer. I too think it's wonderful they decided to end their lives together and with dignity. In the guardian today there's an excellent report on a bupa care home for the elderly. I may not reach old incapacitated age but if it consists of a weekly shower/hairwash then I, for one, hope the facility to end my life is available to me before I reach that stage.
So what if they committed suicide. I would have thought that the old fashioned viewpoint on this subject has more to do with attitudes to mental illness and should be confined to the dustbin of prejudices. Suicide, passed away, died. In the end it matters not a jot and certainly not to the people who go to Dignitas.
"But your central point about euphemisms is negated by your own use of value-laden language to describe what happened here."
But "commission" is the proper and accepted word is normal terminology. What do you suggest? Maybe people "do" suicide or "suicide" themselves. Actually it's probably simpler to say that people kill themselves.
How can it be emotive to say that someone commited suicide when that did?
You know, you're entitled to live your own life your own way, but you have no right to impose your values on those who, as adults, have chosen not to share them. If you'd done some research (like any doctor should) you'd have read that Lady Downes had terminal cancer; but regardless, you have no right to make the offensive remarks you've made about their choice. As to her being his personal assistant, well I'm my partner's PA as well, and wouldn't choose to be described in any other way; yet again, you impose your personal, cranky values. You need to learn both humility and shame.
the year is 2020 and i have terminal cancer. my daughter makes sure my will is up to date, then drives me off to the nearby clinic. next door to this clinic is the abortion clinic where my daughter aborted my grandchild a few years before. My elderly blind demented husband came too: my daughter hired a wheel chair from the British Red cross for the outing. We passed the hospital where i worked nights for 35 years to pay the morgage on the house my duaghter would now inherit. I remembered those tiny little syringe drivers, which delivered subcutaneous diamorphine, midazolam and hyosine. they were small little pumps, ran on 2 AA batteries. we would just fill em up, insert a subcut needle and tuck the pump under the pillow. there were no I.V. fluids, no painful gaggy ng feeds. the patients were warm, clean and peaceful: if they were not: we would Just Up the dose. people came to visit the patients: Macmillan nurses, oncologists, aromatherapists, kindly nurses changed the sheets, the priest would come, the chaplain, old friends would pop in and read you extracts from favorite books. sometimes a CD player or an Ipod would come in..........and favorite music would be played. The old demented ones went to a cottage hospital; they went on outings on summer evenings; nurses and patients alike sitting in the pub gardens drinking pints of ale and sharing ciggaretts. but that was back in the times before Dignitus became a household name like TESCO or google
the nearby clinic being a chain of dignitas..............giving an excellent suicide package atan affordable price..................................
In John's defense from the critics above, his post is about euphemisms in relation to the BBC article. The fact that poor Lady Downes had terminal cancer makes no difference in that context.
Some can take offense in an empty room.
Get a life folks!
Well no one has asked you as a Doctor to help, so stop whining.
I have heard the ageing John Humphreys speak supporting voluntary euthanasia - I believe he's co-authored a book on the subject. I would not expect an unbiased reporting of the issue from him (or anyone else).
Our beneficent host wrote:
'If poeple want to committ suicide, that is a matter for them. But please do not ask me as, a doctor, to help. I will not have anything to do it.'
I'd fully support you in your choice. Your life, your choices.
' . . . Lady Downes was only 74. Why did she want to die?'
None of your business. Her life, her choices.
As to the euphemisms, I detect a degree of differing standards here, depending upon your opinion of that which is euphemised. After all, we do not write "X died of massive trauma, covered in blood and gore and with various parts of a Ford Mondeo embedded in him at artistic angles, following a head-on collision which was entirely his own stupid fault" - even though it is all perfectly true. We write "X died in a traffic accident". Euphemisms are the grease that eases social awkwardnesses, and a very good thing too, sometimes.
Coming back to choices - Dr Crippen, since you refuse to have anything to do with an activity (euthanasia) which you personally find to be morally abhorrent - may we assume that you will now fully support the rights of other healthcare providers to refuse to engage in activities which they find morally abhorrent?
I hope you & yours have a pleasant and relaxing holiday.
llater,
llamas
Having always worked within critical care environments I find this a tricky one. Oftentimes we are pulling out all the stops to save lives...however, as demand for this type of care increases doctors are having to make tough choices over who to admit to an ICU in the first place. As Capgrass points out, "assisted" death within a hospital ( being on the Pathway accompanied by a syringe driver full of morphine, midazolam and hyosine- whatever euphemism you choose the drugs are helping the patient to die a bit faster) allows patients to die peacefully...if they are distressed we increase the dose....just how much we are "assisting" the process is open to debate. Certain groups of patients will never make it into an ICU in the first place...we often see chronic respiratory patients who are given a "trial" of BIPAP that doesn't work because they are broken and we are not gods...hence they would not go to ICU when HDU has maxed them out on the limits of treatment that we can give. However it does make me a little uncomfortable that you can go to a clinic and ask to be put out of your misery- not that I have any right to judge people who take this option- I merely find it open to abuse. Its not quite like taking Fido to the vet.
You really are a witless creep, Crippen.
a witless creep? Do you honestly believe my spotty irish blogger "celticleopard" that having a strong opinion about euthanasia is Witless?
what would you like Dr Crippen to blog about? the fish he ate last night? potty training? female circumcism? soda farls?
Well, I am sorry to hear that Lady Downes had end stage cancer.
The point is, though, that the BBC did not report that this morning on the TODAY programme, nor in their reports on the internet.
What the BBC DID do, though, as it tends to, was treat the whole issue as somehow rather lovely and "right on". It was neither. It was awful
John
"...was treat the whole issue as somehow rather lovely and "right on". It was neither. It was awful."
Everyone has to die, Doctor. Sometimes it is desirable to choose the time and the place. This was one of those times.
ZT
Dino-nurse wrote:
'Its not quite like taking Fido to the vet.'
Indeed.
When you take Fido to the vet, you have to decide what's best for Fido and for you, having regard to all the circumstances.
Would that I could do the same thing with my own life, that I am free to do for Fido.
llater,
llamas
"After all, we do not write "X died of massive trauma, covered in blood and gore and with various parts of a Ford Mondeo embedded in him at artistic angles, following a head-on collision which was entirely his own stupid fault"
Oh yes we do. It was all over the media this week that a taxi-driver decapititated himself in a car crash and he did it deliberately."
If its juicy enough, it will be commented on. This is called human nature.
There are different views on fibromyalgia although all are based on the constant pain that produces the disease and although not yet really know the accurate cure for it, I have my father suffering from this disease and I am interested in the topic to be able to help their pain to dissipate in any way and have read many books on fibromyalgia and chronic pain and to find findrxonline indicate that opioid narcotics for pain control are excerpts from the opium and are very effective and are commonly used to control and remove moderate to severe pain, these drugs are controlled NARCOTICS opioids which required a medical prescription. For the effectiveness and suppression for the management of pain, narcotic analgesics opioid medicine is indicated for the treatment of cancer pain, pain caused by trauma, postoperative pain, neuropathic pain, the pain is still severe.
There are different opioid narcotics such as Lortab, Lorcet, Oxycontin, Percocet, opioids to help allay the pain of this disease and its side effects can be dangerous if he can not manage it in a moderate, Caution should be exercised when taking this medicine, and that this drug causes drowsiness, so you should avoid driving a car and suffered a car accident or in the worst case and even death are the most used in the world should take caution.
I believe that these opioids may be very useful to improve the life of my father but, as shown here ask the doctor to instruct me on these drugs as the muscle relaxant that is applied to my father and painkillers do not the desired effect, and we want to improve this terrible feeling that this malaise.
The Times has them "falling asleep hand in hand".
Hmm.
am guessing 'drugpain' is spammer...
There seems to be very split opinion on the medical front with regard to 'helping' a patient die as it is so delicately phrased!. I am curious as to why any doctor is against voluntary euthanasia. The management of pain relief in this country is poor; for someone with a terminal disease there is only the prolonged use of opiates on the menu - and morphine the most widely used of all, causes many people shocking hallucinations and subsequent distress. Why is it so hard to accept that quality of life is the most important aspect of existence?
A paragraph in the hippocratic oath says "I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art." A noble promise in principle but one that we all have to agree is open to interpretation, after all there are many deadly drugs prescribed on an hourly basis and abortive remedies are legally sanctioned and even sold over the counter. What is strange is the fact that it is deemed acceptable to withdraw treatment to allow someone to die as opposed to provide a large dose of drugs in order to facilitate death. The very reason that places like Dignitas exist is the attitude that life should be preserved at all costs and sadly it is the individual who pays those costs.
I spent 3 hours on the phone trying to coax the doctor out to give my Mother a morphine shot when she was in the dying process with liver cancer. All the time I'm on the phone, coaxing, wheedling and crying, she's lying there with her legs paddling in pain. I really felt like taking a mallet to that doctor after she had given my Mum the morphine. Why is this preferable to Dignitas?
I am curious as to why any doctor is against voluntary euthanasia. Why? The debate about euthanasia is similar to abortion - everyone comes to it with their own assumptions, beliefs, views. I could easily say I am curious as to why any doctor would be for voluntary euthanasia. Despite what the Daily Mail might say, doctors generally wish to help people and many of us feel that killing our patients is not a good idea. We are also witness to the pressure that is applied to patients sometimes by society or by their relatives and would worry how "voluntary" the euthanasia would be. Conflicts of interests would arise and be difficult to reconcile. And we've seen the slippery slope effect time and again - remember abortion is practically available on demand now and whether you agree with this or not, it is obvious this is different from what the law was first set up to achieve.
I envy them.
I wish I had the money to go to DIGNITAS and the ability to leave my house to travel there. I'm frightened of a failed suicide attempt at home leaving me brain damaged, or that a successful one will mean my husband being prosecuted for assisting me.
I have been housebound with severe M.E.(classified by the WHO as a neurological illness) for over 20 years & the unremitting pain & overwhelming exhaustion is appalling. Most medical professionals treat me with utter contempt and treat me as if I would get better if I exercised (I can hardly walk). There is no effective treatment for severe M.E. , just ridiculous psychological 'therapies' aimed at correcting patients' supposed 'aberrant illness belief'.
Kay Gilderdale has been charged with assisted suicide after helping her daughter Lynn, who was bed bound and in terrible pain with M.E. for years, to die.
Doctors won't help patients with severe M.E. to live and they won't help us to die when we have had enough of their mismanagement and abuse on top of this horrible physical illness.
The allusion to veterinary practice has already been made.
Very few people will argue with the decison to euthanize an animal that's suffering with no hope of relief. Every Saturday afternoon in the UK during steeplechase season, on some rain-swept racecourse or other, a horse is 'put down' after a bad fall, and nobody bats an eye.
If the owner of the horse has every right to decide that it's better for the animal to put it out of its misery - then what right does any person have to tell any other person that they may not do the same for themselves? Does a person have less rights in their own body than the horse-owner has in his horse?
Are we right to be concerned about how 'voluntary' such a decision might be, or the risk or pressure and coercion? Of course we are. But I think it's interesting to note that in the nation where euthanasia has gone the furthest (the Netherlands), problems in this area were not the result of family pressure or greedy relatives anxious to get their hands on the silver, but of doctors and other healthcare workers making unilateral decisions about what was 'best' for the patient. It's hard to put aside the thought that many of these decisions may have been made for socio-political reasons as much as they were for the well-being of the patient. Doctors deciding that a newborn is not fit to live, or that a geriatric patient would be better off dead flies in the face of individual choice, and snacks very much of eugenics - a practice which far-too-many doctors around the world have been far-too-fond-of in years past.
We should also be extremely wary of the other extreme, such as the likes of "Dr" Kevorkian, who would "assist" suicides for his own reasons and championed this as a personal cause rather than in consideration of the best interests and desires of his "patients".
Sure, there's dilemmas around the issue. But these dilemmas can be addressed, and some way found that ensures that the most-important factor - the choice of the individual about what happens to their own body and personality - is paramount.
llater,
llamas
Excellent post llater llamas......very good arguments.
the anonymous person with M.E. who wants to die: sounds to me like someone suffering from mental pain. (she can type cant she? people is severe physical pain dont type!). methinks before she goes to dignitis she should go to the priory and have some tender loving care in a supportive kindly environment: she should be given respect, pain relief, warmth, good food, friendship, cognitive behvorial therapy, walks in the freash air (in a wheel chair if necessary) and just wait for 3 weeks till the anti depressants start to work. IF THAT DOESNT WORK well.........then o.k. sell your house and use the money and go to swizerland. but it sounds to me like you post was a cry for help. how sad this is........posting on this blog site isnt going to help: you have to speak to real people.
M.E. is classified as a a neurological illness (from which people have died), it isn't depression.
Guardian Angel's post is typical of the ignorant, condescending attitudes M.E. sufferers have to cope with from both the general public and the medical profession in addition to their physical illness. No wonder so many commit suicide.
Anonymous 1:01Am. Dont get suicidal about what you read in these comments section. Yes the blog is written by a G.P. but any old psychopathic troll can access this blog and put in a comment. Please dont take it to heart. many of the people who put comments on this blog are very unhappy screwed up distructive people WHO should be more careful about thier inflamatory remarks. Remember it only takes a second to type out all the angry bile inside you; its possible to type without thinking sometimes. i pray for you
Ethicists, like Mary Warnock, believe certain groups should be entitled to end their lives once they feel they have become too much of a burden.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7625816.stm
I'm sure there are those who would extend such thinking to anybody suffering from a dreadful, irreversible and degrading medical condition?
This line of thinking seems to produce at least two schools of thought.
One lot argue for better palliative care, or better services for the growing population of demented but this has never happened in my lifetime and I see no realistic prospect that it ever will - in other words tens of thousands, or maybe hundreds of thousands have die badly and many more will continue to do so.
Don't forget there are very few palliative care inpatient facilities, while nursing homes are oversubscribed despite being prohibitively expensive.
“Estimates suggest 300,000 people die each year who need palliative care but do not have access to it" [see link below].
The other school is that we should follow the Dutch model - it does seem that more and more NHS doctors are persuaded by this line of thinking - one recent survey found 34% of them supported a change in the law to legalise euthanasia.
http://www.ncpc.org.uk/download/newsroom/pressReleases/NCPC_CliveSearle_PressRelease_20Mar09.pdf
I think llamas put's it very well - and I think we need to give serious consideration to such a proposition.
Well definitely it should be opt-out just like abortion. Unlike abortions where I would involve myself, assisted suicide I would probably not.
Do I and a majority of medical students at the moment think people should have the ability to do so however and you'll find the answer is yes, as I commented a while back when we took a vote on the issue...
so you would help kill a baby......but not an old person. where is the logic in that? the baby would live, the old person maybe has a few weeks
"god" Well I suppose it's because most people think of a developing human without full consciousness or awareness differently to a fully grown adult no matter what age.
I'm not getting into the spiritual side where religious people may believe the soul is there from conception or whatever... that's a completely different story.
but isnt the point of euthanasia to eliminate those "without full consciousness or awareness"?
i nearly had my daughter aborted. i felt so sick, i was waiting to do my ENB 100. She bought me cup of tea in bed this morning, we plan later to watch t.v. medical drama, She is so gorgeous and SO happy to be alive. ENB 100 seemed so important in those days. i cant believe i ever thought it was MORE important that my beautiful child.
The euphemisms were to soften an ugly word and to ensure that there was no misunderstanding about how they chose to die - "commits suicide" suggests something altogether different to what happened.
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